Keen Scent enough for targeting invisible enemies when throwing splash weapons?

[VoodistMonk]

Title pretty much says it all.

If there are invisible enemies about, is scent pinpoint enough for grenades? Understand, pinpoint enough for grenades leaves some room for interpretation, but you generally aim for a square on the map.

Would a half Orc with the Keen Scent feat be able to determine range and direction of an invisible enemy to be able to throw a grenade into the square of the enemy, or an adjacent square?

Scent says determining direction is a move action, so I know direction can be determined. Range of scent is 30', normally, with wind either doubling this distance or halving it.

So, do you get any distance information from the Scent ability? Just use the known max range of scent, and look at the environment in the direction you smell the enemy?

[EvilMinion]

Scent only gives you direction (with a move action).

You need to be adjacent to them, to know exactly what square they're in.

[blahpers]

Universal Monster Rules wrote:

Scent (Ex)

This special quality allows a creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range.

When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. When the creature is within 5 feet of the source, it pinpoints the source’s location.

A creature with the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Survival skill. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

So, distance and direction in a nutshell:

1. If you can smell something, it's within 15, 30, or 60 feet, depending on wind conditions, or it might be further away if it's really stinky.
2. With a move action, you can narrow down the direction.
2. If you're within 5 feet, you can pinpoint.

Beyond that, you're in "guess the square" territory.

[VoodistMonk]

But "guess which square" with grenades isn't too bad. It's like fishing with dynamite.

But I have never played with Scent, how accurate is the directional information the GM provides the player? Does he show me which row or column on the map the enemy is in? Does he just say 'somewhere kinda to your left-ish"?

Ex:
If we are fighting someone who was in front of us when they turned invisible, as a move action can I determine if I need to throw my grenade in the same row of squares I'm in, or did he move over two rows? Say he was at my 12o'clock, but moved after turning invisible to my 11o'clock... Does my nose tell me, as in does the GM tell me, throw your grenade at 11, not 12?

[LordKailas]

VoodistMonk wrote:

But "guess which square" with grenades isn't too bad. It's like fishing with dynamite.

But I have never played with Scent, how accurate is the directional information the GM provides the player? Does he show me which row or column on the map the enemy is in? Does he just say 'somewhere kinda to your left-ish"?

Ex:
If we are fighting someone who was in front of us when they turned invisible, as a move action can I determine if I need to throw my grenade in the same row of squares I'm in, or did he move over two rows? Say he was at my 12o'clock, but moved after turning invisible to my 11o'clock... Does my nose tell me, as in does the GM tell me, throw your grenade at 11, not 12?

for something like that, IMO, your character would need to make a tracking check (IOW survival) and you would gain information based on how good your check is.

It happens at our table at lot with targeting AE spells. I want to land my fireball so that it hits the enemy and not my allies. The DM then has me make a spellcraft check to see if my character can figure out exactly where to put it. Helps streamline things instead of making me (the player) decide exactly where it needs to go.

[Zarius]

Perception. You would check perception. You aren't TRACKING them, you'r figuring out where they are.

And you would still have to make a check yo figure it out, when your turn rolls around. Now, in fairness to the ability, you DO get a +8 to your perception skill to find them.

[Azothath]

it depends on your PC skills and capabilities.
The scent(ex) rules are quoted above.
With two PCs(the second scenter could be a trained animal aka a 'pointer') you could use triangulation (oh no, geometry!). Or the long game of obscuring mist(std), scent(move) and move 5ft, then next round move 5 ft and scent(move) then throw with improved guesses.