Hat of Disguise: Can it become invisible?

[Skarm]

Hi all,
I was wondering:

Would be possible to have a hat of disguise to turn invisible?

I was wondering because the Diabolical Masquerade Mask states:

"This masquerade mask resembles a handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes. It functions as a hat of disguise..."

...but also...

"...when infernal healing is active, the mask becomes visible whether or not the wearer is using its disguise abilities (although all other elements of the disguise remain)."

Which means (but would be obvious with a mask) that the mask could be made turn invisible to not hinder the disguise!

So I was wondering if a character with a Hat of Disguise could make himself look as if he was wearing no head-wear, if he wanted...

I am asking because frankly I don't like much head-wears and I can think thousands of ways in which this could ruin a good disguise...so I was wondering if I can make look the hat as if it disappeared! :)

Thanks,
Skarm

[Mathmuse]

Hat of Disguise wrote:

This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.

The text implies that the hat can disguise itself, but not that it becomes invisible. Of course, if it disguises itself as a hair weave that matches the wearer's hair, it will be very difficult to notice.

The Invisibility spell can turn an object, such as a Hat of Disguise, invisible for 1 minute per level and can be made permanent with Permanency.

[Diego Rossi]

Published by who? and where?

By the snippet of the description you list, it seem simply that even if you are invisible it will become visible when using infernal healing.
Without the complete description it is hard to know how it work.

[Warped Savant]

Diabolical Masquerade Mask: This masquerade mask resembles a handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes. It functions as a hat of disguise. The wearer can use charm person and infernal healing each once per day. When infernal healing is active, the mask becomes visible whether or not the wearer is using its disguise abilities (although all other elements of the disguise remain).

Hat of Disguise: This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.

The mask can disguise itself to be a comb, ribbon, headband, etc, etc, etc. What Mathmuse said is accurate with the added note that when you're using it's infernal healing power the mask "resembles a handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes".

[deuxhero]

Disguise Self is an illusion (meaning it doesn't work against someone touching your, someone throwing a sheet/flour/mud on you ect.). Hat of Disguise functions that spell but has an extra restriction that you need some kind of head gear in your disguise. The illusion only hides the mask, it actually doesn't change the shape of the mask and you're still wearing it.

[Skarm]

Mathmuse wrote:

Hat of Disguise wrote:

This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.

The text implies that the hat can disguise itself, but not that it becomes invisible. Of course, if it disguises itself as a hair weave that matches the wearer's hair, it will be very difficult to notice.

The Invisibility spell can turn an object, such as a Hat of Disguise, invisible for 1 minute per level and can be made permanent with Permanency.

The hair wave idea is perfect, thanks!!

Thank you all for the clarification! :)
Skarm

[Zarius]

I like making it look like a hair clip.

[Diego Rossi]

Warped Savant wrote:

Diabolical Masquerade Mask: This masquerade mask resembles a handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes. It functions as a hat of disguise. The wearer can use charm person and infernal healing each once per day. When infernal healing is active, the mask becomes visible whether or not the wearer is using its disguise abilities (although all other elements of the disguise remain).

Hat of Disguise: This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.

The mask can disguise itself to be a comb, ribbon, headband, etc, etc, etc. What Mathmuse said is accurate with the added note that when you're using it's infernal healing power the mask "resembles a handsome horned devil with red lenses in place of eyes".

So I confirm my interpretation, you can become invisible with other methods, but the mask become visible when you use infernal healing even if you are invisible. That reference to invisibility has nothing to do with the disguise part.

[Meirril]

Diego Rossi wrote:

So I confirm my interpretation, you can become invisible with other methods, but the mask become visible when you use infernal healing even if you are invisible. That reference to invisibility has nothing to do with the disguise part.

That is one way to interpret the wording on the mask. I don't think it is the intended effect though. I think the author's intention was for the mask to be displayed prominently when the healing ability is activated.

So if you disguised as a guard wearing a metal helm, and you used the Diabolic Healing ability the mask would suddenly appear on your face but the rest of your disguise would remain.

Honestly this ability should only effect the disguise. If you were invisible, the mask shouldn't show up floating in mid air. It should be covered by the invisibility.

[Diego Rossi]

Meirril wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

So I confirm my interpretation, you can become invisible with other methods, but the mask become visible when you use infernal healing even if you are invisible. That reference to invisibility has nothing to do with the disguise part.

That is one way to interpret the wording on the mask. I don't think it is the intended effect though. I think the author's intention was for the mask to be displayed prominently when the healing ability is activated.

So if you disguised as a guard wearing a metal helm, and you used the Diabolic Healing ability the mask would suddenly appear on your face but the rest of your disguise would remain.

Honestly this ability should only effect the disguise. If you were invisible, the mask shouldn't show up floating in mid air. It should be covered by the invisibility.

We are saying the same thing, only in a different way. The text is clear: the mask become visible, in the specified form, when you use the infernal healing power, even if you or the mask are invisible or the mask is disguised as something different. There is nothing in the mask description that allow it to become invisible by itself.

[deuxhero]

It makes perfect sense when you remember Disguise Self is an illusion. It's not invisible, but Disguise Self more or less covers the hat with an illusion. The mask's description means the mask, and mask alone, is no longer hidden by the cover of illusion. Try reading the description and replace "the mask" in "the mask becomes visible" with something else you'd cover with disguise self like "the user's natural hair color", or "any scars the user has" and it's more obvious.

[Azothath]

You are confusing objects with creatures. Hair is part of a creature until it is cut off. Hair weaves are getting pretty detailed for the game model.
The Hat of Disguise can appear as an object. That means it is clearly not part of the creature so a 'hair wave' or spit curl is not a legitimate illusion (target){getting picky, insert picture of grumpy cat}. A hair clip, hair pin, ribbon, etc would be more in line with the item description.

Disguise as a skill has broader implications, but the hat in the head slot has to stay where it is to function. Masks have to be in their slot to function.

[DungeonmasterCal]

We've just always allowed it to be changed into some other small piece of clothing on the disguised person, such as a scarf or turban.

[Diego Rossi]

Toupee. :-)

[Mathmuse]

Azothath wrote:

You are confusing objects with creatures. Hair is part of a creature until it is cut off. Hair weaves are getting pretty detailed for the game model.

The Hat of Disguise can appear as an object. That means it is clearly not part of the creature so a 'hair wave' or spit curl is not a legitimate illusion (target){getting picky, insert picture of grumpy cat}. A hair clip, hair pin, ribbon, etc would be more in line with the item description.

Disguise as a skill has broader implications, but the hat in the head slot has to stay where it is to function. Masks have to be in their slot to function.

A hair weave is hair that has been cut off. It is a kind of wig, but it attaches to the hair, like a ribbon, rather than sitting on top of the head like a standard wig. Therefore, it is an object.

The Hat of Disguise does stay in its spot. Its disguise is a glamor not a transformation (Greater Hat of Disguise performs a transformation). As for whether the glamor must be in the same spot as the hat itself, let me ask an awkward question: if the wearer disguises himself as a tall warrior a foot taller than his real self and disguises the hat as a helmet, how far is the helmet image from the real Hat of Disguise?

I think the hat must disguise itself as headgear for two reasons:
1) Disguising an object as something that has a different use increases the chance of an interaction that causes disbelief. The magic probably automatically choses the details that would not give the disguise away, so objects stay in the same role.
2) For dramatic purposes, we want other characters to be able to reach up to the disguised headgear and pull it off, ending the glamor. "I knew you were in disguise!"

The second point answers my awkward question. A person reaching for the tall warrior's helmet will end up grabbing the Hat of Disguise. Perhaps the glamor bends the apparent location of the reaching arm grabbing the hat to make it look like it is grabbing the helmet.

The first point probably means that the Diabolical Masquerade Mask disguises itself as something that covers part of the face, such as a headband, helmet with a nose protector, floppy-brimmed hat, wig with bangs over the eyes, scarf wrapped over face, goggles, eyeglasses, or veil.

[Azothath]

The problems are game mechanics oriented; Perception, magic item slots, and as you point out glamor versus a grab.
The game rules are nebulous as we want to have fun and the details are left to the GM to adjudicate and keep things fair. Often when players get into details it is an attempt to gain a mechanical advantage (such as the hat as an illusion of a toupee). Just smile and say sure. Any NPC or viewer can recoginize it as a toupee unless a high DC is obtained on a disguise check (making the check isn't free or assumed, it takes time and some skill). A weird or odd ribbon is strange, weird or fake hair is a social faux pas in most cases.

As a GM I'm rather permissive on the magic end of things. I run a lot of wizards and I like to see some creativity in the game as, Hey, It's a game. There are rules though and fairness is an issue.

The mask is kinda a cool effect as it temporarily manifests when the wearer uses the fast healing effect. I think the jig might be up if you need that effect. Probably time to exit stage left!

[Azothath]

With an illusory disguise you want to avoid being touched as that leads to checks to disbelieve the illusion.
The soultion is to disguise yourself as something the locals don't want to touch... lepers, pox victims, dirty peasants, kalistocrats, zombies, alchemical golems... lol, you get the idea. Usually the goal is to blend into a crowd, look like part of a specific group(jail guards), or be avoided.