Are Class Feats Too Restrictive?

[thflame]

I have some fears about class feats that I would like to air out and see if others have the same issues.

First of all, there appear to be class features that sound like stuff any character should be able to attempt.

Secondly, there appear to be Class Feats that were once General Feats than now appear to be locked behind particular classes. Now, it is possible that such features are just unlocked later by other classes, but I hope we can get clarification on this.

Here are some examples:

Fighters are the only class that get Opportunity Attacks by default. Apparently other classes can get Opportunity Attacks as a feat. Is this ALL other classes, or are some classes SOL if they want Opportunity Attacks?

Fighters can get a class feature called "Battlefield Surveyor" which gives them a +1 to Perception on Initiative rolls. Now, I don't know how this is described in-game, but it sounds like the Fighter knows what spots make for good ambushes, so he knows to keep his eyes peeled when this comes up. My question is, should you HAVE to be a Fighter to be able to spot likely ambush areas?

The Fighter Class Feat, Sudden Charge, let's a Fighter move twice and attack for 2 Actions. Is a Fighter the only class that can do this or can other classes get the feat later? Also, couldn't other classes charge in PF1? (I know that Sudden Charge doesn't make you move in a straight line, but still...)

Power Attack is listed under the heading of Fighter Class Feats. Does this mean that Barbarians can't Power Attack anymore without multiclassing?

Quick Reversal, another Fighter Class Feat is sort of the opposite of Cleave. If you miss, you can still hit someone on the back-swing. (Unfortunately, they have to be directly behind you, but whatever.) This sounds right up the Barbarian's alley. Swing so wildly that even though you miss they guy in front of you, you still hit the guy behind you.

Shield Warden lets you protect your ally with your shield. Cool, sounds like a great feat for my overly protective Paladin! It's a Fighter Class Feat.....

Rogues get Nimble Dodge, which grants them a +2 to AC as a reaction. This sounds like something ANY dexterous character should be allowed to acquire, no?

Mobility, a Rogue Class Feat that allows you to move at half speed to avoid Opportunity Attacks, was previously a flat Acrobatics Check that ANY character could perform. Should this be locked behind the Rogue Class?

Reactive Pursuit, another Rogue Class Feat, is the Step Up Feat from PF1. Is it now locked behind being a Rogue?

Dread Striker sounds like PF1's Shatter Defenses Feat, a combat feat that allows you to treat intimidated opponents as flat-footed. Now it's a Rogue Feat. My favorite character, and Eldritch Knight took that feat...

Now, I get that classes need something to make them special, but I feel as though PF2 is going the route of taking abilities away from everyone to make them special for certain classes.

Maybe these will be unlockable feats for everyone after a certain point? If so, then why call them Class Feats?

Maybe we will have very similar feats for other classes? If this is the case, then why waste book space writing essentially the same feat for all of the classes? Why not just let us all have access to the same feats?

My problem is that Paizo has stated that PF2 would bring us MORE customization. While this may be true, in that we may have more choices for our characters, if you lock out specific choices because they belong to other classes, then you have just made the game more restrictive.

I have officially gone from being very optimistic for PF2 to disheartened as to how it is going to turn out.

[Cuttlefist]

We have seen like what? 5% of the game? Actually, we have seen so little we have no idea how much we have not seen yet. It is pretty unrealistic to think we have enough info yet to assume what all classes can and cannot do. Also, just because a feat was talked about in a class post does not mean it is a class feat. They did not say Power Attack was a class feat, and I am pretty sure Shield Warden is not either. We have only gotten two classes previewed out of twelve so far, maybe wait until we have hit six before this kind of reaction?

[RumpinRufus]

With the caveat that we only have little hints of what is in the game...

I 100% agree with all your concerns.

[Shadrayl of the Mountain]

I'm pretty sure that multiclassing is going to primarily work by poaching Class Feats off of other Classes, so I'm not super concerned about this aspect. If I'm wrong, well then I share your concern.

I have a really strong feeling I'm not wrong, though.

[RumpinRufus]

The thread is not really titled correctly though, the concern is not about class feats AS A CONCEPT being too restrictive (after all, you wouldn't call oracle revelations or rogue talents "restrictive.)

The concern is that the specific class feats they've announced (such as Mobility and Reactive Pursuit) seem to be taking abilities that were available to all classes in PF1 and locking them behind class walls. Or, introducing abilities that could be thematic to many character concepts of different classes, and limiting them to one class (e.g., Intimidating Strike or Nimble Dodge.)

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm going to need to see what things are offered as general feats, honestly. Since if X is a general feat, and as a class feat a class which has X right in their wheelhouse gets "a better version of X" then that seems reasonable. Sort of like how some vigilante talents were "A feat plus a bit." It may be that "Step Up" and "Reactive Pursuit" both exist, it's just that rogues get the better version.

But honestly I think too much is being made out of "attack of opportunity belongs to fighters now" since, unless PF2 is really different from PF1 a whole lot of classes won't be caring about AoOs anyway.

[John Lynch 106]

I'm hoping that Attack of Opportunities will be "Fighter 1, General 7" or something like that.

[Vidmaster7]

In all honesty I have absolutely no idea if they are or not.

[thflame]

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

I'm pretty sure that multiclassing is going to primarily work by poaching Class Feats off of other Classes, so I'm not super concerned about this aspect. If I'm wrong, well then I share your concern.

I have a really strong feeling I'm not wrong, though.

If this is the case, then I have no problem at all with this system. It's basically a classless system with progression chassis that give you access to certain abilities sooner than others. That's cool.

I really hope that the multiclassing blog post comes soon....