No more feets like Alertness and all the rest of the +2 to +2 skills.
We only need one feat for that.
And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.
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No more feets like Alertness and all the rest of the +2 to +2 skills.
We only need one feat for that.
Given the skill redesign, I don't think those type of feats will work with it anyway.
And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.
Agreed. That's a sacred cow that's kind of nonsensical. There's nothing OP about Dex to Attack and Damage, especially since Dex is no longer directly linked to Initiative, and most of the weapons you'd be able to apply it to are typically lower end on the damage anyway.
There shouldn't be feats that give bonuses to anything, keep all the math represent skill as part of proficiencies.
Feats should give new actions. If they want a skill feat to improve a skill it should increase the characters proficiency in that skill, that keeps the system bounded.
On another note, an increase in profieciency being just a +1 difference, +5%, is far too small to represent the difference in capability that is supposed to be represented. In 1e a character who focused on a skill could take the skill focus feat which was a +3 bonus, a +15% difference. That seems to better represent the difference between untrained and trained, or expert and master. A +4 or +5 bonus would be great too, but +1 is far too small.
Take a character trying to sneak past a guard of the same level, the character isn't focused on dex so it has dex about equal to the guards wis. If they are both of equivalent proficiency sneaking by should be about a 50% chance depending on the situation. With a +1 bonus for each proficiency level a master sneaking by an untrained guard is still has a 25% chance of failure, way higher than makes sense. With a +3 bonus, a master sneak has an 80% chance of sneaking by a trained guard, and untrained sneak still has a 35% chance of sneaking by a trained guard. With a +4 bonus a legendary sneak can only be caught be at least an expert guard (or a higher level guard). Those chances make a lot more sense than the +1 differences between proficiencies, concern about the effects of magic on chances shouldn't effect this system being usable and making sense.
I think the bonus is so limited because they are using the same proficiency bonus for everything, the devs don't want a +12 from legendary bluff because they don't want a +12 from a legendary sword. But they could just have 2 proficiency scales instead. One for things like skills with +3 and one for things like swords with their current -1/0/+1/+2/+3. That would keep the systems a lot more elegant than forcing quite different systems into using the same scale, and having other ways to get bonuses with things like skill focus feats. If they don't have other ways to get bonuses to skills than the system has no accurate representation of skill/training.
If the devs want the scale of skills to be in line with other things so they can be used for combat maneuvers just have the skill be a check verses the targets athletics dc instead of a reflex/fortitude save.
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If a bipedal drow can't take 3 of the +2 feets, how will he or she ever become a drider?
While these feats were generally noob traps, they did serve a purpose (especially once that upgrade at level 10). I'll be a bit sorry to see them go.
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And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.I don't want there to be an option at all for Dex to Damage. Makes Dexterity way too powerful.
I'd rather agile fighting styles were represented differently than strength styles. Simply replacing Dex for Str doesn't do it for me.
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I'd rather agile fighting styles were represented differently than strength styles. Simply replacing Dex for Str doesn't do it for me.And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.I don't want there to be an option at all for Dex to Damage. Makes Dexterity way too powerful.
Exactly. Especially since doing so pushes you closer to being a SAD class, which often becomes overpowered. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but something along precision type damage would be good.
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And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.I don't want there to be an option at all for Dex to Damage. Makes Dexterity way too powerful.
Arya Stark, Inigo Montoya, Jack Sparrow, D'Artagnan, and George Patton would take issue with that!
(Also, removing Dex to Initiative already is making Dex significantly less powerful in PF2.)
Especially since doing so pushes you closer to being a SAD class, which often becomes overpowered. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but something along precision type damage would be good.
If it's needed for balance, you could still subtract the Str mod if it's negative. What I don't want is the PF1 weirdness of being worthless until level 5, then suddenly become deadly once you can finally take Slashing Grace.
Especially since doing so pushes you closer to being a SAD class, which often becomes overpowered. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but something along precision type damage would be good.If it's needed for balance, you could still subtract the Str mod if it's negative. What I don't want is the PF1 weirdness of being worthless until level 5, then suddenly become deadly once you can finally take Slashing Grace.
That's brilliant :o
I would heartily endorse a General Feat available to anyone that allowed dex to damage from level 1 with that caveat. I would even be fine with it scaling to later remove that penalty (whether based on overall levels or based on proficiency level with your weapon). Adding the dex option with incentives to not completely tank strength is the perfect middle ground, in my opinion.
And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.Or go the 5E route and just make it an option that doesn't require a feat. Not every option has to suck a feat out of the bloated corpse of Pathfinder 1.0.
I would rather that be moved over to weapon property material instead of taking up feat space. We are supposed to be moving away from Feat taxes, so making weapon selection be where your different damage capabilities comes in would be more elegant and free up more choices in other places.
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And one feat for dex-to-damage please. That anyone can take at level 1.I don't want there to be an option at all for Dex to Damage. Makes Dexterity way too powerful.Arya Stark, Inigo Montoya, Jack Sparrow, D'Artagnan, and George Patton would take issue with that!
(Also, removing Dex to Initiative already is making Dex significantly less powerful in PF2.)
Especially since doing so pushes you closer to being a SAD class, which often becomes overpowered. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but something along precision type damage would be good.If it's needed for balance, you could still subtract the Str mod if it's negative. What I don't want is the PF1 weirdness of being worthless until level 5, then suddenly become deadly once you can finally take Slashing Grace.
The problem with your analogy, is that you are indicating that these characters are doing damage exactly the same with agility as say The Mountain does with Strength and Power.
I have no problem with Dex being able to reflect some extra damage in some way. Just not the exact same way as Strength. Especially if every Strength based feat has to have a Dexterity based analogue (piranha strike, I'm looking at you.)
Make it so that Dex builds are good, but different enough from strength builds, that there is a reason for taking one vs. the other based on character concept. Currently, a Rapier wielding character can uber-optimize for equal to or potentially more DPR than a two-handed sword character can and often have a better AC overall with the right mithral armor.
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Theoretical "Dex based" characters in fiction deal extra damage by hitting weak points (aka crits). Having dex based weapons deal more critical damage is probably a more thematic and balanced solution than Dex to damage.
Agreed. I could see Dex giving you a better ability to do a crit.
As I recall (from the glass cannon podcast, maybe?), the "deadly" property does something like an extra 1d10 damage on a crit. That could be how they're approaching it. I'd be curious to see what the overlap is between finessable weapons and deadly weapons.
I feel like I've committed a terrible sin by derailing this thread in the first reply.
In an attempt to atone, I've made a new thread devoted to Dex to damage discussion.
Requesting that we continue the discussion there instead.
I'd be more okay with the "+2 to two different skills" feats if they provided some thematic synergistic ability on top of the skill bonuses. So if Alertness also let you always act in a surprise round, or prevented you from being flat-footed when surprised, that would be something. But when presented as just +2 to two skills, it's bland and also underpowered.
Now in PF2, +2 to two different skills would probably actually be very good. But you could still make it +1 to two skills and then have an ability sitting on top. Without those abilities, though, I'd really just rather not see nickle and dime +1/+2 feats like this.