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Here is the original thread I am basing some of my thoughts off of...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tv1s?UnRogue-Finesse-Training-and-NonStandard- Weapons#1
Now, in the above thread, to cut a long-story short (it's not that long actually), you need to have a TYPE Of weapon that can have weapon finesse applied to it to gain dex to damage. They came to a basic consensus (sort of) that effortless lace wont do the job, which is fine, but my question becomes can a class feature change that?
Alright, so I am playing a Westcrown Devil, that has the ability "Classically Trained" at 1st level, which states:
Classically Trained (Ex)
A Guild Devil can use Weapon Finesse with a longsword sized for him when he wields it one-handed, even though it is not a light weapon.
this is the EXACT same type of verbiage that is used for weapons like the rapier that read:
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon.
Considering this, AFTER you gain your first level in Westcrown Devil, can you then take (or retrain) your Rogue's finesse to apply to the longsword, since now, it is a TYPE of weapon that (at least for you) can have the weapon finesse feat applied to it? I feel this falls within the rules understanding that the others came to above, as for the Devil, the longsword is a type of weapon that has the ability to have weapon finesse applied to it, and it is not getting it from an temporary item. Since both of the abilities are class skills, I see no reason why it would not work. I agree you cannot take it BEFORE you get Classically trained, but I say you can after. Thoughts/reasons?
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True story: I specifically wrote the Westcrown devil to work with unchained rogue. In the original version, it even let you retrain your choice of finessable weapon to longsword when you gained the ability.
It lost that bit of text in development - if I recall, it was a mix of "cutting things for space" and a development policy of treating unchained classes other than summoner as purely optional. If I were your GM, I'd allow it without a second thought. And even if not, retraining should be an option.
Hopefully this helps. ^_^
Hm. I was confused about the thread topic - that's what I get for posting right after waking up. I was referring to the unchained rogue's finesse training class feature in my previous post. Between that and classically trained, a Westcrown devil should be able to get Dex to attack and damage with a longsword. ^_^
What is "Rogue's Finesse" from, anyway? It's not ringing any bells.
Augunas!
Thank you. ^_^
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Sorry, that's my issue. I meant Finesse Training! Not Rogue's Finesse. You thought correct right away Isabelle! You answered my questions right on the nose.
@Zarius
As I said in the original post, I'm going into Westcrown devil. I need to use long swords. Secondly, I'm dual wielding them, so Finesse training is WAY more efficient and effective than all of those options.
So while the Author may have intended it, I don't believe it works per the rules. Longsword is not a finessable weapon. That you have the ability to finesse it from a feat or class ability doesn't change that it's not a finessable weapon and thus not a valid choice for the rogue's finesse training.
True story: I specifically wrote the Westcrown devil to work with unchained rogue. In the original version, it even let you retrain your choice of finessable weapon to longsword when you gained the ability.
It lost that bit of text in development - if I recall, it was a mix of "cutting things for space" and a development policy of treating unchained classes other than summoner as purely optional. If I were your GM, I'd allow it without a second thought. And even if not, retraining should be an option.
Hopefully this helps. ^_^
How is it that you wrote like...all of my favorite things from that book?
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How is it that you wrote like...all of my favorite things from that book?
It's a gift. ^_^
I agree with Chess Pwn. The weapon has not changed. YOU have changed.