Can Shifter take Beast of the Society?

[Wayne Bradbury]

Beast of the Society trait

Would they be able to take it at 1?
Would they need to take it with Additional Traits after 4?
Would they need a druid dip to take it?
If they do, would it still affect Shifter Wild Shape?

And, if they can take it, would it effectively just double the hours per day they can use Wild Shape, given the recent FAQ change to how their Wild Shape works?

[willuwontu]

They cannot take it, beast of the society requires you to be a druid, and has no wild shape clause, therefore a shifter cannot qualify on its own.

wrote:

Whenever you use your wild shape class ability to turn yourself into a Small or Medium animal, the effect lasts for 2 hours per druid level instead of 1 hour per druid level.

This could be taken in a couple of different ways, since each hour counted as a use before you can now transform for 2 hours per use (doubling your time). This would also mean 2 levels of druid gets you 4 hours per use.

Or it could mean, you get 2 hours total of transform time or your shifter level whatever is highest for transform time.

[Chess Pwn]

Wayne Bradbury wrote:

Would they be able to take it at 1?

no, they don't qualify since they aren't a Druid

Wayne Bradbury wrote:

Would they need to take it with Additional Traits after 4?

Still don't qualify since they aren't a druid

Wayne Bradbury wrote:

Would they need a druid dip to take it?

Yes, perhaps as their first level. I'm not sure if that trait can be taken after lv1.

Wayne Bradbury wrote:

If they do, would it still affect Shifter Wild Shape?

no idea

[Nefreet]

It should be noted that there are two versions of that Trait, published in two different sources. One requires you to be a Druid, and the other does not.

Since this can only be for a home Campaign (Shifter is not legal yet for PFS), just talk to your GM and see if they'll allow it.

[tchrman35]

Also, there's literally no reason they could NOT take the trait. Traits do not have prerequisites. Whether you could USE the trait could be at issue. Shifter includes this line, whose language I hope is cleared up in the rewriteerrata:

Ultimate Wilderness wrote:

A shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level.

A strict constructionist will say that the time you spend in wildshape is not a prerequisite. A loose constructionist will probably say that it's clear what they meant - that if you're dealing with wildshape, a shifter is a druid.

However, there's also some interesting interaction with the FAQ that adjusts the duration to Level+WIS mod. Some things to discuss with your GM:

1) With BotS, how many hours of wildshape do I have? Twice my previous total? 2xLevel + WIS? 2xLevel? I can see any of those being your answer.

2) Do I use it in one hour increments or two? This one may depend on the first. For me, I would make it twice the previous total, useable in two hour increments, (so every shift is up to twice as long, but the number of shifts stays the same.)

[willuwontu]

tchrman35 wrote:

Also, there's literally no reason they could NOT take the trait. Traits do not have prerequisites. Whether you could USE the trait could be at issue. Shifter includes this line, whose language I hope is cleared up in the rewriteerrata:

Ultimate Wilderness wrote:

A shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level.

The feats and abilities have to have wild shape as a requirement for their druid level to be equivalent to the shifter level. BotS does not require wild shape, therefore a shifter cannot qualify on its own.

[willuwontu]

Nefreet wrote:

It should be noted that there are two versions of that Trait, published in two different sources. One requires you to be a Druid, and the other does not.

Since this can only be for a home Campaign (Shifter is not legal yet for PFS), just talk to your GM and see if they'll allow it.

What are the different sources?

[graystone]

willuwontu wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

It should be noted that there are two versions of that Trait, published in two different sources. One requires you to be a Druid, and the other does not.

Since this can only be for a home Campaign (Shifter is not legal yet for PFS), just talk to your GM and see if they'll allow it.

What are the different sources?

Shattered Star Players Guide

Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide

[Wayne Bradbury]

Nefreet wrote:

Since this can only be for a home Campaign (Shifter is not legal yet for PFS), just talk to your GM and see if they'll allow it.

Or, you know, it could be thinking/planning for when Shifter does become PFS legal (which, according to John Compton, is soon).

[Nefreet]

Then, no, a PFS Shifter could not take Beast of the Society, as the only legal version requires Druid as a prerequisite.

[Wayne Bradbury]

Okay, so the wording in Shifter doesn't allow it to take the trait on its own.

So what happens if you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with that trait?

The trait says whenever you use Wild Shape (not Druid's Wild Shape, mind you, just Wild Shape) it lasts for 2 hours per Druid level.

So, does a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with Beast of the Society effectively have 4 uses per day of Wild Shape that last for 2 hours each?

[Nefreet]

I don't own this book, but if the Shifter class ability is called "Wild Shape", and refers to the equivalent of "effective Druid level", then it should work fine.

I'm personally not a huge fan of multiclassing, though. I wouldn't think 1 level of Druid would benefit you much, unless you're going for some Domain shenanigans.

[Wayne Bradbury]

Nefreet wrote:

I don't own this book, but if the Shifter class ability is called "Wild Shape", and refers to the equivalent of "effective Druid level", then it should work fine.

I'm personally not a huge fan of multiclassing, though. I wouldn't think 1 level of Druid would benefit you much, unless you're going for some Domain shenanigans.

Usefulness and benefit isn't really relevant here. This is just a rules question.

Yes, the ability if specificalled called "Wild Shape". It contains a line that says for things requiring Wild Shape your shifter level counts as your druid level. This doesn't technically require Wild Shape, so as was stated above in this thread, it probably doesn't use your Shifter level.

As a Druid 1/Shifter 4, though, as per the wording of the trait, each use of your Wild Shape would last for 2 hours per Druid level, so 2, and you've got 4 uses as a Shifter 4.

[sunblaze31]

Hm is this oficially confirmed?
Yes shifters do not hav any druid class-levels (unless they multiclass) but then again druidic (the language) is forbidden outside druids as well. Yet shifters get it for free just as druids do.

Is it possible shifters are like a warrior caste inside druid hierachy?
At least that fits thematically and would make sense considering the druidic language.

[willuwontu]

sunblaze31 wrote:

Hm is this oficially confirmed?

Yes shifters do not hav any druid class-levels (unless they multiclass) but then again druidic (the language) is forbidden outside druids as well. Yet shifters get it for free just as druids do.

Is it possible shifters are like a warrior caste inside druid hierachy?
At least that fits thematically and would make sense considering the druidic language.

Shifters are given druidic by their class ability.

Just because a brawler has flurry like a monk doesn't mean it qualifies as a monk for feats and such not.

It's the same thing with a shifter, it does not count as a druid, unless that ability has wild shape as a requirement.

Beast of the society (faction guide which is the one used by PFS) requires druid, a shifter is not a druid, the trait doesn't require wild shape, so the shifter cannot count as a druid, therefore a shifter cannot take it.

[ZᴇɴN]

It's kind of already established here that a dip is necessary to get it. The question at this point is what happens when you do.

[swoosh]

graystone wrote:

Shattered Star Players Guide

Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide

Sort of an interesting situation here.

Are there any other examples of PFS directing players to ignore reprints? Usually if a rule gets updated in a new book that supersedes the previous version.

[Nefreet]

swoosh wrote:

Usually if a rule gets updated in a new book that supersedes the previous version.

This isn't actually a rule that's been printed anywhere.

There are multiple reprints throughout Pathfinder. PFS has handled them in a variety of ways:

1) both versions are legal (Grenadier Alchemist)
2) the original was legal, but no longer is, and you must update your character (Lore Warden)
3) the original was legal, but no longer is, and originals are grandfathered in (APG Summoner)
4) the original is legal, the new one is not, keep the original (the various "of the Society" Traits)