Bardic Knowledge or Familiar?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

Pretty much speaks for itself.

So the Duettist allows you to get your own familiar that is effectively your very own backup dancer

Thing is you give up bardic knowledge to do it which is considered by many to be one of the most defining abilities of the bard

So in the long run which one would you generally get some use out of?
(And for the sake of argument, Lets assume you don't pull the sage archetype trick to compensate for the lack of bardic knowledge and instead get the improved familiar feat to get the Lyrakien Azata)


Personally, I'm not a big fan of bardic knowledge.

First off, I think it is nice to spread the knowledge checks around. Let the Cleric know about religion, the Wizard about arcane, The barbarian or ranger about nature etc. Bardic knowledge is a nice 'backup' for knowledges nobody has, but it is hardly necessary.

The two bardic abilities I won't give up are inspire courage and versatile performance (or I better get something great for them.)

Familiars are extremely cool. Improved Familiar is extra action economy. Even non-improved familiar duettist has built in action economy boosters.


I'd take the familiar because the whole make any knowledge untrained seemed lack luster to me since you'll be training in all of the knowledges. Some might like adding 10 to their knowledge checks but having your familiar deliver touch spells is better than half your level to knowledge checks.


A familiar has its master's skill ranks, which means whenever a duettist makes a knowledge check, the familiar can too, which is very similar to rolling twice and taking the higher result--approximately as beneficial as getting a +5 bonus on a single roll. A bard doesn't get +5 from Bardic Knowledge until level 10. The familiar can Aid Another on many skill checks too, including the non-knowledge ones.

A duettist doesn't get to make knowledge checks untrained, so there's the cost of scattering one point into every knowledge. Also, they don't get the auto twenty from loremaster. On the other hand, a familiar gives Alertness, the equivalent of 4 (and eventually 8) skill ranks, plus the familiar bonus to a skill/hp/initiative/whatever. On top of that you get everything a familiar can actually do: scouting, combat actions, etc. Saving combat actions on performance is pretty big, and if you get your Improved Familiar, there's Use Magic Device possibilities, Commune once a week...great stuff.


for sure go familiar. bardic knowledge is usually not good enough to rely on. (plus you can go sage familiar to get bardic knowledge on your familiar) the familiar being able to dance for you is a pretty nice action saver.

Silver Crusade

I'd say for power and utility its basically a wash. Both are very useful if you build your character around them.

Go for whichever one you think would be much fun for you to play. Some people LOVE having a familiar, some HATE it, some are in between


Why not both? Take a sage familiar.

Silver Crusade

master_marshmallow wrote:
Why not both? Take a sage familiar.

(And for the sake of argument, Lets assume you don't pull the sage archetype trick to compensate for the lack of bardic knowledge and instead get the improved familiar feat to get the Lyrakien Azata)

Besides as far as I'm aware, you can't put the sage archetype on an Improved Familiar.


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
Why not both? Take a sage familiar.

(And for the sake of argument, Lets assume you don't pull the sage archetype trick to compensate for the lack of bardic knowledge and instead get the improved familiar feat to get the Lyrakien Azata)

Besides as far as I'm aware, you can't put the sage archetype on an Improved Familiar.

The Sage Familiar Archetype doesn't change the creature type or alter Speak With Animals Of Its Kind so it should stack with Improved Familiar.

Silver Crusade

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Really Now? That is VERY interesting


Relevant FAQ.

Scarab Sages

Improved Sages also tend to get a few more skill points from the get go.

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