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So the Water dancer monk gains a kinetic blast in the form of Water(bludgeoning). they gain no form infusions.
If I have levels in Kineticist, am I able to use form infusions from kineticist with water dancers blast?
If I take, one of the versions that restricts me to a specific infusion, such as kinetic knight HAVING to take and use Kinetic Blade, Elemental Ascetic with Kinetic fist, or the Annihilators Devastating blast, will my Water dancer class also be bound by this restriction?
If you have cleric levels and wizard levels, can you use your cleric spontaneous ability to cast cure lights from wizard spells? No.
So in this case, no you may not use kineticist form infusions with water dancer blast.
I don't think it is the same, since the water dancer don't take a different type of power (arcane vs. divine magic)...it is the exact same power, albeit less restricted.
In my opinion he should be able to do so, but I have flagged the question for FAQ.
Skarm
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I have flagged this as well. They need to release rules for multiclassed characters that have kineticist abilities. They should have done so with the release of the Havoker witch archetype.
If it helps, this is how I handle them in my home games:
Primary Element must be shared by all classes (just like bloodlines with arcanists, bloodragers, or sorcerers)
You do NOT gain a new blast until you get Expanded Element (ie, through actual kineticist levels), so NO COMPOSITE BLASTS through level dips.
Levels in these classes stack to determine the power of your abilities (effective level of blasts, wild talents, infusions, etc) but DO NOT stack for the purposes of acquiring new abilities. So, your blast becomes more powerful, but you can't get level 3 infusion until you actually possess 6 levels in one of the classes that offers them.
If your abilities run off of differing ability scores due to some archetype changes, you must pick ONE (like a Monk/ninja ki pool).
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I'd very much like to see this officially FAQ'd.
Specifically:
-If a character gets a kinetic blast from multiple classes (e.g. water dancer and kineticist) can infusions gained by one class be used with the kinetic blast gained by the other class (assuming they're legal element/infusion combinations)?
- If so, can a multiclassed kineticist's "gather power" action be used to reduce the burn cost of a kinetic blast granted by a different class (e.g. The water dancer, which does not give "gather power" because it does not normally get infusions.)?
It feels to me like the answer to both should be "yes" since the analogy here is more "using your the orc bloodline arcana granted by 1 level of sorcerer to affect your wizard spells" or "using a metamagic feat to affect spells from either of your spell lists" since an infusion is less a spell and more a "way you have learned to alter/control your kinetic blast."
Unless it says the abilities stack they are completely separate abilities that happen to be the same.
Another important question is would they be able to grab their associated dualblast?
I.E. Water dancer lvl 1, air kineticist with lightning blast, immediate use charged water blasts at lvl 2?
Also, the water dancers K.B. says it stacks for damage ehich was what got me on this question in the first place.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Every similar ability combination like this says no.
Developers have continually said:
Every class has been written with single class in mind.
Every single similar FAQ came down on no.
Things don’t stack unless they say they do.
There just isn’t any reasonable question that this works together.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I'd let it work. You're already multiclassing so there's no sense in punishing you even more.
If you have cleric levels and wizard levels, can you use your cleric spontaneous ability to cast cure lights from wizard spells? No.** spoiler omitted **
RAW they can’t. If you must, there is an faq saying RAW they can’t.
Every similar ability combination like this says no.
Developers have continually said:
Every class has been written with single class in mind.
Every single similar FAQ came down on no.Things don’t stack unless they say they do.
There just isn’t any reasonable question that this works together.
So this is for arguments sake. I'm not trying to be a snob.
Elemental Focus (Su and Sp)
A water dancer gains the elemental focus ability of the kineticist class, but must choose water as his element. He gains the basic hydrokinesis wild talent as normal, and gains the kinetic blast feature of the kineticist class for the water element, using his monk level as his effective kineticist level. He can’t use his kinetic blast when armored or encumbered.
This replaces flurry of blows, stunning fist, and quivering palm.
The specific part is that they gain it AS THE KINETICIST class.
let's look at that ability.
Elemental Focus (Su)
At 1st level, a kineticist chooses one primary element on which to focus. This element determines how she accesses the raw power of the Ethereal Plane, and grants her access to specific wild talents (see below) and additional class skills. She gains her selected element’s basic utility wild talent (basic telekinesis, basic aerokinesis, etc.) as a bonus wild talent.
So under this information, the Water dancer would gain ACCESS to these infusion as they are still considered wild talents, even if his levels never let him TAKE any of them. Which include:
Wild Talents
Simple Blast - cold blast, water blast
Composite Blasts - blizzard blast, charged water blast, ice blast, mud blast, steam blast, winter blast
Defense - shroud of water
1st - basic hydrokinesis, cold adaptation, energize weapon†, heat adaptation, icewalker, kinetic cover, kinetic healer, pushing infusion†, quenching infusion†, slick, water alteration
2nd - entangling infusion†, penetrating infusion†, slick infusion†, veil of mists
3rd - cold snap, impale†, torrent†, water manipulator, waterdancer
4th - healing burst, ice sculptor, spray†, watersense
5th - chilling infusion†, shimmering mirage, waterdancer, greater, watersense, greater
6th - ice path, kinetic revivification, suffocate
7th - cloud†, fragmentation†
8th - cryokinetic stasis, maelstrom†
9th - tidal wave
And
Wild Talents
1st - draining infusion†, elemental whispers, extended range†, kinetic blade†, kinetic fist†, skilled kineticist
2nd - blade rush†, focused blast†, skilled kineticist, greater, spindle†
3rd - elemental grip, elemental whispers, greater, extreme range†, flurry of blasts†, kinetic restoration, kinetic whip†, mobile blast†, snake†
4th - expanded defense
5th - blade whirlwind†, grappling infusion†, kinetic form, spark of life, wall†
6th - ride the blast, whip hurricane†
8th - reverse shift
But upon looking at the water dancer, I noticed one OTHER thing...
Wild Talents: At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter, a water dancer selects a new utility wild talent from the list of options available to the kineticist class, treating his monk level – 2 (minimum 1) as his kineticist level for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites as well as for level-dependent effects of the utility talent. He can select only universal wild talents or those that match his element (see elemental focus above). At 6th, 10th, and 16th levels, he can replace one of his utility wild talents with another wild talent of the same level or lower. He can’t replace a wild talent that he used to qualify for another of his wild talents.
Does this mean he has to be lvl 8(2 higher than normal) to get a lvl 3 ability? or that if it does something like damage/lvl it treats it as 2 less?
Also, as per the elemental focus, do we gain the associated skills?
My reading is that the Water Dancer gets a level 1 utility at 2nd, a level 2 or lower utility at 6th, a level 4 or lower utility at 10th, a level 6 or lower utility at 14th, and a level 8 or lower utility at 18th.
So for example: Kinetic Healer at 2nd, Elemental Whispers at 6th, Greater Elemental Whispers at 10th, Kinetic Revivification at 14th, and Reverse Shift at 18th for an entire career's worth of utility talents.
There does not appear to be a way to gain the Hydrokineticist's elemental defense (for shimmering mirage) or any extra utilities through feats like "Extra wild talent."