So it's reads as such:
Mass production has rendered this once-rare serum easy and inexpensive to obtain. Upon drinking this elixir, your biology instantly transforms to take on a set of sexual characteristics of your choice, changing both your appearance and physiology accordingly. You have some mild control over the details of this change, but you retain a strong “family resemblance” to your former appearance.
The elixir’s magic functions instantaneously and cannot be dispelled. Your new anatomy is as healthy and functional as your previous body’s, potentially allowing you to conceive, carry, or bear children (depending on your species’ biology). Drinking a second elixir of sex shift either reverts you back to a former form or allows you to adopt other sexual characteristics, as you choose. The elixir has no effect if you are unwilling, and the presence of certain sex-specific biological processes, such as gestation, may prevent this serum from taking effect.
So I have a couple of questions about this item, because the wording of it could result in some rather... interesting implications if one thinks about it too hard.
1) Since you adopt the set sexual characteristics of your choice, and does not specify the set having to be male OR female, does that mean a user could become a biological hermaphrodite?
2) Is it limited to the species genders limitations, or is there no restriction. Such as a vesk wanting to become a shirren host? Or a Ysoki wanting to have a marsupial anatomy so they have an extra pouch to use?
3) An... "Enhancement" bonus to charisma or profession courtesan if you catch my drift. (I'm sorry, but with at least two other "romantic" types in our playgroup, myself excluded, this would be a legitimate inquiry should they find out about this item.)
The best answer is that how this works is up to what your GM and group is comfortable with. The words “depending on your species’ biology” leads me to believe that you are restricted to characteristics already present in your species, however. It does not grant any bonuses to stats or skills. It’d be a heck of a lot more expensive if it did.
I'm inclined to agree and think that you're likely restricted to what your own species can do.
Grabbing organs entirely alien to your own biology, like crossing the mammalian/reptilian/insectile lines, or becoming a host shirren or even compatible with the seven sexed race (whose name eludes me right now) seems beyond such a cheap item - without even going into the "how would that even work".
Then again, multiracial families have to exist in sf, so who knows, maybe it's advanced enough to handle everything. Still not my first instinct, though.
In doubt, see with your GMs, indeed - and if that serum can't do it, something out there, more expensive, harder to get, probably can.
3) seems to be what the serum of appearance change is for. Want bigger ears, paler skin, longer legs, a daintier nose, a "broader frame" or whatever ? You can get that and more for a mere 75 creds.
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So the Sex Shift elixir does the 'grunt work' and moves the plumbing around, and the Appearance Change elixir does the finishing 'fine work'.
I can get behind that idea.
Alright, so #2 and #3 are out, but what about #1? So far I have persuaded my GM that the wording is loose enough to allow hermaphrodites, but it does seem like a bit of a grey area.
If just using the Serum of Sex Shift gave you a constant bonus to Profession (Courtesan), that would not only be overpowered, but also seriously messed up. It would heavily imply that people wanting a different set of characteristics just do so for sexual or at least romantic reasons.
And as for #1, I don't see any reason to disallow that. If that wasn't meant to be possible, then the description would clearly state that your body shifts to another sex. It doesn't, though, it says "a set of sexual characteristics of your choice". I'm pretty sure that allowing characters that don't fit neatly into any sex is part of the reason for this item's existence.
How would this work on an android? They may have external frames that are more "male" or "female" shaped, but I'm under the impression that they're all Barbies and Kens in their pants. Would it just not work at all? Or would they actually be able to "grow" functional sex parts, as given their synthetic nature they can modify themselves into anything?
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How would this work on an android? They may have external frames that are more "male" or "female" shaped, but I'm under the impression that they're all Barbies and Kens in their pants. Would it just not work at all? Or would they actually be able to "grow" functional sex parts, as given their synthetic nature they can modify themselves into anything?
This is incorrect. Androids are infertile, but otherwise have all the external and internal sexual characteristics that come standard for humans.
Or from micro usb to 8-track.
How would this work on an android? They may have external frames that are more "male" or "female" shaped, but I'm under the impression that they're all Barbies and Kens in their pants. Would it just not work at all? Or would they actually be able to "grow" functional sex parts, as given their synthetic nature they can modify themselves into anything?This is incorrect. Androids are infertile, but otherwise have all the external and internal sexual characteristics that come standard for humans.
..This makes me wonder; What would happen if an Android wore a Demon Mother's Mask. But, that is a pathfinder item and is irrelevant to the discussion. Though.. Now I am tempted to make an Android who reveres Lamashtu..
On topic: Could someone use the serum to have no gender at all?
So the Sex Shift elixir does the 'grunt work' and moves the plumbing around, and the Appearance Change elixir does the finishing 'fine work'.I can get behind that idea.
i like it!
How would this work on an android? They may have external frames that are more "male" or "female" shaped, but I'm under the impression that they're all Barbies and Kens in their pants. Would it just not work at all? Or would they actually be able to "grow" functional sex parts, as given their synthetic nature they can modify themselves into anything?This is incorrect. Androids are infertile, but otherwise have all the external and internal sexual characteristics that come standard for humans.
Where is it actually written? The implications of this are pretty... unfortunately.
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Where is it actually written? The implications of this are pretty... unfortunately.How would this work on an android? They may have external frames that are more "male" or "female" shaped, but I'm under the impression that they're all Barbies and Kens in their pants. Would it just not work at all? Or would they actually be able to "grow" functional sex parts, as given their synthetic nature they can modify themselves into anything?This is incorrect. Androids are infertile, but otherwise have all the external and internal sexual characteristics that come standard for humans.
How are the implications unfortunate?
As for where it's from it's stated explicitly in Pathfinder that androids in that era are externally only distinguishable from humans by specific things...a lack of genitalia is not one of those things.
Looking at it, it's actually quite possible that some do lack genitalia and other external sex characteristics in Starfinder given the explicit statement that some androids have much less resemblance to humans than was once the case, but that just means some of them lack such characteristics, not all by any means.
How are the implications unfortunate?
As for where it's from it's stated explicitly in Pathfinder that androids in that era are externally only distinguishable from humans by specific things...a lack of genitalia is not one of those things.
Looking at it, it's actually quite possible that some do lack genitalia and other external sex characteristics in Starfinder given the explicit statement that some androids have much less resemblance to humans than was once the case, but that just means some of them lack such characteristics, not all by any means.
Pathfinder androids all came from the planet Androffa, whereas the Starfinder ones are often made in the Pact Worlds. We can't assume they have the same biology due to the different origin. For one, Androffan androids also have a limited lifespan and can't voluntarily leave their bodies for a new soul to inhabit, as Starfinder androids can.
As for unfortunate implications? Many androids are slaves. They also can't get pregnant or impregnate. If they have fully functional sex organs there's definitely something going on that most gaming tables don't want to think about.
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Pathfinder androids all came from the planet Androffa, whereas the Starfinder ones are often made in the Pact Worlds. We can't assume they have the same biology due to the different origin. For one, Androffan androids also have a limited lifespan and can't voluntarily leave their bodies for a new soul to inhabit, as Starfinder androids can.
They're explicitly created by reverse engineering the Androffan androids and mostly made with the same methodologies, though.
As for unfortunate implications? Many androids are slaves. They also can't get pregnant or impregnate. If they have fully functional sex organs there's definitely something going on that most gaming tables don't want to think about.
I honestly don't think that's any more unfortunate than the implications of a race where many members may want to engage in sexual activities (since many androids do, indeed, have gender identities and sexuality) and be utterly incapable of doing so because their creators thought it 'wasn't necessary'.
Actually, that strikes me as quite a bit more horrific given it's a permanent removal of their ability to participate in a particular sort of activity as a species. Rape and sexual slavery are horrific, but rendering a servitor race incapable of doing any enjoyable activity forever is quite a bit worse, looked at long term.
Also, and somewhat unfortunately, the exact unfortunate implications you refer to make it almost certain, from a realistic perspective, that if you can create a slave race with the ability to have sex, that's how they'll be created.
Pathfinder androids all came from the planet Androffa, whereas the Starfinder ones are often made in the Pact Worlds. We can't assume they have the same biology due to the different origin. For one, Androffan androids also have a limited lifespan and can't voluntarily leave their bodies for a new soul to inhabit, as Starfinder androids can.They're explicitly created by reverse engineering the Androffan androids and mostly made with the same methodologies, though.
As for unfortunate implications? Many androids are slaves. They also can't get pregnant or impregnate. If they have fully functional sex organs there's definitely something going on that most gaming tables don't want to think about.I honestly don't think that's any more unfortunate than the implications of a race where many members may want to engage in sexual activities (since many androids do, indeed, have gender identities and sexuality) and be utterly incapable of doing so because their creators thought it 'wasn't necessary'.
Actually, that strikes me as quite a bit more horrific given it's a permanent removal of their ability to participate in a particular sort of activity as a species. Rape and sexual slavery are horrific, but rendering a servitor race incapable of doing any enjoyable activity forever is quite a bit worse, looked at long term.
Also, and somewhat unfortunately, the exact unfortunate implications you refer to make it almost certain, from a realistic perspective, that if you can create a slave race with the ability to have sex, that's how they'll be created.
This makes me think there could easily be groups of androids who turn to gods and demigods of lust and fertility in hopes of being granted the ability. Ardad Lili, Belial, Lamashtu, Nocticula, and Socothbenoth, Just to name a minority of the options that just the lower planes offer.
..Now, one must wonder how many incubi, succubi, and other such finds rise from the souls of androids. Just because it can't be sated doesn't mean the desire is utterly absent in all of them.
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This makes me think there could easily be groups of androids who turn to gods and demigods of lust and fertility in hopes of being granted the ability. Ardad Lili, Belial, Lamashtu, Nocticula, and Socothbenoth, Just to name a minority of the options that just the lower planes offer.
Well, if any Androids have sexes and thus genitalia and other primary and secondary sexual characteristics (and I think I've made a pretty good case that at least some do), then all they need is the Serum of Sex Shift to handle the lust part, since that's then a normal configuration for the sex of that species.
Fertility is another matter entirely and might easily lead to exactly this sort of thing.
This makes me think there could easily be groups of androids who turn to gods and demigods of lust and fertility in hopes of being granted the ability. Ardad Lili, Belial, Lamashtu, Nocticula, and Socothbenoth, Just to name a minority of the options that just the lower planes offer.Well, if any Androids have sexes and thus genitalia and other primary and secondary sexual characteristics (and I think I've made a pretty good case that at least some do), then all they need is the Serum of Sex Shift to handle the lust part, since that's then a normal configuration for the sex of that species.
Fertility is another matter entirely and might easily lead to exactly this sort of thing.
An android high priest of Lamashtu that "births" to bio-mechanical abominations sounds like a fantastic and terrifying villain. Some Geigeresque horror imagery right there.
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Things have changed since Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
And thank frick for that, we live in (mostly) better times for it. No-one needs Thac0, floral shirts, satanic scares, disco or, you know, crippling social inequality. (granted, don't think we truely got rid of even one of those, but at least there's markedly less of them).
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The best answer is that how this works is up to what your GM and group is comfortable with. The words “depending on your species’ biology” leads me to believe that you are restricted to characteristics already present in your species, however. It does not grant any bonuses to stats or skills. It’d be a heck of a lot more expensive if it did.
I know this is a bit of an old thread, but I am new to starfinder, though I am a veteran pathfinder GM, and I really just want to point out how much I love this item, I am gender fluid, and most days I identify somewhere between the genders, or as a mix of them, so having an item that specifically allows me to play characters that share my identity and can do more about it than I can is great. In answer to your question, 1 the wording of the item is left purposely vague so that you can interpret it either way, arguably you could also get extra genitals or sex characteristics of any sex of your race, you could mix and match, or take all, or go for the androgynous no secondary sex characteristics archetype, 2 no it is specifically within your race, but work with your GM if that is something you want, you could have a rarer, quest related item that could do that, and 3 eh? if someone wants giant boobs or a giant member then that is their prerogative, it would not grant actual stat boosts but as long as your GM is ok with it, who are we to judge
For what its worth, I'm fine with "mix and match custom sexuality changes" being a thing in the setting. I just don't think it should come from the cheap off the shelf Serum. At least as I interpret it, the serum works by sort of "throwing a switch", which is logical enough an idea for a serum that you basically just quaff to use. However, if your trying to build a new sexual physiology outside what "normally" occurs in your species ( and with the understanding that "normal" is a bit of a loaded word )? That probably should require more involvement then just drinking a potion. You are doing an extensive redesign of your genetics and physiology in a way that would require a ton of customization and a lot of double-checking.
Or basically? This would probably be a thing where you pay a couple hundred credits to a professional, who uses their expertise to help you design your new body.
except that it is specifically worded in a way that mixing and matching is a possibility,
"This elixir’s magic functions instantaneously and can’t be dispelled, though drinking a second elixir of sex shift either reverts the character back to a former form or allows them to adopt alternate sexual characteristics, as they choose."
The "or alternate sexual characteristics" part implies that it does not have to be one or the other. and then later is this part,
" The elixir has no effect on characters who are pregnant or are of races with no sexual differentiation. Most races have a wide spectrum of sexual differentiation, some common, others more rare. Therefore, most creatures can decide how this elixir transforms them. An unwilling imbiber can choose not to change at all."
since both is an, admittedly rare, naturally occurring configuration, as are most intersex/androgynous configurations, the rules seem to support the mix and match method
EDIT: The last 2 quotes seem to be from an Errata, as they do not appear in the original thread quote, but do appear in the AoN description, which is the official online rules database, so it seems they changed the wording to be less ambiguous on the intersex options