We're running Runelords as a four man party and the group seems solid. We have a ranger, paladin wizard and sorcerer.
Our Ranger is on the frontline and is the group skill monkey. He also stealths ahead, tracks and heals.
The Paladin is the tank, face and impromptu healer.
The wizard is our Arcane master who covers knowledge checks and what not.
The sorcerer, me, dipped into monk as I use wisdom as my casting stat. I don't feel like I contribute much to the group other than in role-play.
So if my character were to die, not unlikey as I'm playing a sorcerer monk, what should I play? The glaring empty roles I can see are ranged attacks, which I currently cover with rays, and an actual healer. The problem is that I'm currently playing a dedicated archer in another campaign and a full blown healer in another.
I like to build my own characters so I'm basically asking for role suggestions rather than optimized builds.
I will not play:
A healer
A mage
A ranged fighter
A rogue
I find these these constraints too difficult to work with so I ask the advice board.
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Play whatever you want. Roles are less important than teamwork and playing to your group's strengths. Besides, you have a decent spread already, so go nuts.
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Honestly, having Ranger and Paladin for divine spellcasting isn't going to be enough. I've found that lacking a proper Cleric in Rise of the Runelords has proven to be quite a conundrum in several situations, even though we have a Warpriest, Inquisitor, and Paladin in our party. The delayed spellcasting progression is a killer, and I believe the Rise of the Runelords AP (and several others) assume the basic 4, which is Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric, which means full Arcane and full Divine progression, at the fastest rate no less.
I'm not going so far as to say that you need to heal; the Paladin has Lay On Hands, the Ranger can use Cure spells/wands as needed, and the Wizard won't need much healing if he's smart enough of a player, and even then spot-healing via Spontaneous Spellcasting will be enough.
But the biggest problems, especially early on, were a lack of Cleric's Channel Energy and a lack of proper condition removal spells (yes, our party can have them, but not at the levels where it's assumed we have them, which is a problem all its own).
To that end, I would suggest an Evangelist Cleric. They get Bard's Inspire Courage (great for the Ranger and Paladin to be effective melee, and helps you out if you want to wade into melee as well), full Divine spellcasting with the best Divine spellcaster list, and a Reduced Channel Energy. The big kicker is lack of defensive proficiencies (shored up by ACP 0 equipment), and having only 1 Domain instead of 2. Oh, and the Spontaneous casting, but if your party is smart enough, that's not a big deal at all.
Darksol
I like the idea of non-healing focused cleric but I'm fairly new to casting so what does a full progression divine caster get? Does druid do the same thing as a non-healing cleric?
blahpers
Agreed but I'm asking just to see if I'm something that I'd like to try.
Scott
Solid suggestions. Mauler familiar has always interested me though these aren't exactly role suggestions. Thanks for the input.
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Bard
-another healer
-backup face and knowledge skills
-can fill in the missing rouge skills
-built in buffs
-fair ranged attacker
-unique butt saving spells like saving finale
-fun as hell to RP
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Darksol
I like the idea of non-healing focused cleric but I'm fairly new to casting so what does a full progression divine caster get? Does druid do the same thing as a non-healing cleric?
Full Divine Spellcasters get powerful condition removers, the ability to Summon Monster versus Summon Nature's Ally (better summons list, and Sacred Summons for better action economy), a lot of powerful buff spells (Divine Favor/Power, Blessing of Fervor, Ironskin, etc)., and some interesting utility options.
Druids get a large amount of the same condition removals as a Cleric does (Remove Disease/Poison, Lesser Restoration, etc.), but some of their healing and utility potential (Dispel Magic, Heal, Raise Dead) gets postponed or outright removed in favor of something else that's usually worse. They also lose a lot of personal offensive buffs unless you're a Halcyon Druid to get something for compensation, or you're Samsaran and pick up a lot of the Cleric buff spells, like Divine Favor/Power, Blessing of Fervor, etc. So they're a little behind in the offense department.
They make up for it with Wild Shape and an Animal Companion (or Domain), and by having a few more Skill Points, but it's comparable to say the least, and lacking some of the truly powerful endgame options (Mass Heal, Miracle, etc.), a Druid will fall objectively short to some of the crazy things a Cleric can do with their highest level spells.
That isn't to say Druids don't get good spells, of course. There are some spells they get sooner/better than Clerics, such as Flame Strike (earlier), or Entangle (powerful CC ability, environment permitting), but they will lack some of the versatility and availability a Cleric can otherwise get, and in certain situations, vice-versa.
For your party, either Druid or Cleric is fine, as both are full spellcasters, and both have significant use for the early first half of the book, though I'd find the Druid to have more of a difficult time exploiting their usefulness compared to a Cleric's bare bone features being obvious in their application. The Ranger and Paladin (presumably) still get spellcasting, and do have some condition removers they can get themselves. Paladins get Lesser Restoration as a 1st level spell, compared to it being 2nd level for everyone else, and Rangers get some interesting buff spells like Lead Blades/Gravity Bow, in addition to several other condition removers you possess.
1. Generalist Druid: Wildshape, casting, and animal companion. Supports everyone and covers the healing and range attack roles with spells.
2. Ask DM for a Respec/rebuild and go dragon disciple instead. Use the prestigious spell caster feat to not lose caster progression. This allows you to fill the range roll with spells while being a very tanky full caster that can tangle in melee.
3. Retrain that monk level next level and learn some summoning spells and augment summoning. Summon spam is a great roll and can conver every roll in combat.
4. Warpriest with at least one alignment blessing. More versatile Paladins, but less melee omph. At 10 you get standard action summons.
Update: My ranged character died (different campaign) and our wizard changed his character and is now a ranged inquisitor.
I am now the sole arcane caster and dying would mean that we'd have none. I'm considering wizard but I find it kind of boring and weak at low levels. Are there any interesting archetypes or builds I should consider?
It looks like only Wizard and Witch have fast paced casting but would playing the delayed casters be viable? I was considering Collegiate Initiate into Collegiate Arcanist (Magaambyan Arcanist and Initiate) but are druid spells worth the exploits and not? I could always take extra exploit if it is. I think I can Wizard into the archetype.
What are some fun arcane classes?
With the exception of healing spells, there's not a lot benefit to someone with the wizard spell list in dipping into the druid spell list. That said there's more to the Magaambyan/collegiate initiate archetype than that. They also get to cast their chosen spells spontaneously & the spells can be cleric spells with the good descriptor too.
Would being able to cast entangle, cure light wounds, lesser restoration, martyr's bargain, archon's aura and spit venom spontaneously (in addition to your normal spells) be better than the 1/2 spell level a wizard gets? Only you can say.
It's definitely viable to play a spontaneous caster. The empyreal sorc is fairly unimpressive outside its one good feature of casting off Wis, other bloodlines (for sorcerers or for blood arcanists) can be stronger. A chronomancer wizard could also be fun even with only 5 levels in it.
With the exception of healing spells, there's not a lot benefit to someone with the wizard spell list in dipping into the druid spell list. That said there's more to the Magaambyan/collegiate initiate archetype than that. They also get to cast their chosen spells spontaneously & the spells can be cleric spells with the good descriptor too.
Would being able to cast entangle, cure light wounds, lesser restoration, martyr's bargain, archon's aura and spit venom spontaneously (in addition to your normal spells) be better than the 1/2 spell level a wizard gets? Only you can say.
It's definitely viable to play a spontaneous caster. The empyreal sorc is fairly unimpressive outside its one good feature of casting off Wis, other bloodlines (for sorcerers or for blood arcanists) can be stronger. A chronomancer wizard could also be fun even with only 5 levels in it.
I forgot to mention that I am cross blooded with the Elemental Bloodline. The loss of a spell known hurt but with Wis as my casting stat I can overcome the negative to will saves and play a dwarf with the Stonesinger alternate racial trait to boost my caster level.
A wizard dragon disciple and lots of prestigious spell caster feats can give a wizard the draconic bloodline. Are there any other ways to gain a bloodline as a wizard? What does a wizard need to do to cast spells without preparation? Dragon disciple may not be worth it at all but the Exploiter Wizard might.