| Reksew_Trebla |
If worn by a creature of the animal type with an Intelligence less than 3, a collar of the true companion grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence. This does not give the animal the ability to speak, but it does allow it to understand one spoken language (chosen by the item’s creator).If the collar is worn for at least 1 week by a creature of the animal type, the creature is raised to humanlike sentience, as though by the awaken spell. Once this occurs, the collar loses its magical properties.
Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Does the bolded mean animals, and no, not talking about animal companions, rather completely regular animals, can have an int greater than 2? Since you can only cast Awaken on animals, this means the creature is still an animal with an actual int greater than 2, right? I was formerly under the impression that this wasn't the case, but now I'm wondering what would happen if somebody dropped a Headband of Vast Intelligence on a child animal so that they grew up like a person. Druid animal taking themself as their animal companion seems like a real possibility now.
| thelemonache |
you absolutely can have an animal companion with an int above 2 via either magic or your 4th level ability point. In fact, having a 3 int means your animal has the capacity to understand a language with linguistics (but still not speak) and can take any feat in the game it qualifies for, not just animal companion feats. It is still an animal (not a magical beast).
| Fuzzy-Wuzzy |
The tricky part with smart animals isn't getting their Int above 2, it's getting them to act based on their smarts and not their instincts. According to Paizo, even if you raise an animal's Int to 20 it still behaves more like a normal animal than like a human. For instance, it'll refuse to use manufactured weapons rather than its natural attacks. All in all, I'd be very surprised to find they could take class levels as long as they're still type animal.
| thelemonache |
straight from the pfsrd in case you need more proof :)
Increasing an animal’s Intelligence to 3 or higher means it is smart enough to understand a language. However, unless an awaken spell is used, the animal doesn’t automatically and instantly learn a language, any more than a human child does. The animal must be taught a language, usually over the course of months, giving it the understanding of the meaning of words and sentences beyond its trained responses to commands like “attack” and “heel.”
Even if the animal is taught to understand a language, it probably lacks the anatomy to actually speak (unless awaken is used). For example, dogs, elephants, and even gorillas lack the proper physiology to speak humanoid languages, though they can use their limited “vocabulary” of sounds to articulate concepts, especially if working with a person who learns what the sounds mean.
An intelligent animal is smart enough to use tools, but might lack the ability to manipulate them. a crow could be able to use simple lockpicks, but a dog can’t. Even if the animal is physically capable of using a tool, it might still prefer its own natural body to manufactured items, especially when it comes to weapons. An intelligent gorilla could hold or wield a sword, but its inclination is to make slam attacks. No amount of training (including weapon proficiency feats) is going to make it fully comfortable attacking in any other way.
Even if an animal’s Intelligence increases to 3 or higher, you must still use the Handle Animal skill to direct the animal, as it is a smart animal rather than a low-intelligence person (using awaken is an exception—an awakened animal takes orders like a person). The GM should take the animal’s Intelligence into account when determining its response to commands or its behavior when it doesn’t have specific instructions. For example, an intelligent wolf companion can pick the weakest-looking target if directed to do so, and that same wolf trapped in a burning building might push open a door or window without being told.
| thelemonache |
All of your questions are Ask Your GM type.
Animals can't have Int 3+.
Animals with magical effect can have Int 3+.Child animal with Headband is entirely Ask Your GM.
The rest of the questions are answered in the rules, or your GM can interpret the rules in a way they wish.
I will never argue against asking your GM things, but in this case, you shouldn't need your GMs permission unless he wants to intentionally go against the rules (Which is his perogative). Yes its literally written in the rules that you can have an animal with high int (meaning above 2), yes its literally written in the rules that your Avian, Biped, Quadruped, Quadruped Hexapod, Quadruped Hooves, Quadruped Squat Body, Saurian, and Serpentine can wear headbands as in this gentleman's example (the only categories that cannot are Piscine (like a seal), and Venomous (scorpion, spider, etc)). The exact items each animal companion can wear are detailed on page 1 of the Animal Archive (official paizo book circa 2013 or something).
| blahpers |
Animals have been able to have an Intelligence score greater than 2 since the core rulebook. Magic items (e.g. ,headband of vast intelligence) and spells (e.g., wish) exist that raise Intelligence. Animal companions (which are still technically animals) can reach an Intelligence score of 3 without magical assistance simply by assigning their bonus ability score point accordingly.
Your situation is no different than an animal wearing a headband of vast intellect for 24 hours (in the near term). The long-term application turns the animal into a magical beast per the awaken spell, so there's no new territory to cover there either.
If you drop a headband of vast intelligence on a child animal and it grows up that way, there's no rules coverage for the result other than that you end up with the same result as dropping the headband on an adult animal. It's a scenario that begs the GM to come up with something interesting, though.
In any event, a character cannot take themselves as an animal companion.
| Fuzzy-Wuzzy |
The exact items each animal companion can wear are detailed on page 1 of the Animal Archive (official paizo book circa 2013 or something).
If you have access to Ultimate Wilderness, use the list there instead. It's based on AA's list but they made at least one correction (quadruped(claws) gets a head slot, AA didn't give them one, always annoyed me) and perhaps others.
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Yes its literally written in the rules that you can have an animal with high int (meaning above 2), yes its literally written in the rules that your Avian, Biped, Quadruped, Quadruped Hexapod, Quadruped Hooves, Quadruped Squat Body, Saurian, and Serpentine can wear headbands as in this gentleman's example (the only categories that cannot are Piscine (like a seal), and Venomous (scorpion, spider, etc)). The exact items each animal companion can wear are detailed on page 1 of the Animal Archive (official paizo book circa 2013 or something).
The only thing you are wrong about is you can’t design a new animal with Int 3 without rule 0 away the type rules. You can’t advance an animal to Int 3 without magical ways.
None of that seems relevant to the OP’s question, and I agree 100% to all you said.
The OP seems to be asking a ton of “Ask Your GM” questions about child animals, animal companions taking class levels or feats to gain an animal companion.
| Ventnor |
thelemonache wrote:Yes its literally written in the rules that you can have an animal with high int (meaning above 2), yes its literally written in the rules that your Avian, Biped, Quadruped, Quadruped Hexapod, Quadruped Hooves, Quadruped Squat Body, Saurian, and Serpentine can wear headbands as in this gentleman's example (the only categories that cannot are Piscine (like a seal), and Venomous (scorpion, spider, etc)). The exact items each animal companion can wear are detailed on page 1 of the Animal Archive (official paizo book circa 2013 or something).The only thing you are wrong about is you can’t design a new animal with Int 3 without rule 0 away the type rules. You can’t advance an animal to Int 3 without magical ways.
None of that seems relevant to the OP’s question, and I agree 100% to all you said.
The OP seems to be asking a ton of “Ask Your GM” questions about child animals, animal companions taking class levels or feats to gain an animal companion.
What do you mean "without magical ways?" You can assign an animal companion's regular ability score increase that it gets just for being an animal companion to Intelligence, no magic needed.
There's also an alternate human racial trait called Eye for Talent which lets them assign a +2 ability score boost to an animal companion when they get one, and that boost can go straight into Intelligence.
So, there are ways to have smarter animals without needing any magic.
| Reksew_Trebla |
thelemonache wrote:Yes its literally written in the rules that you can have an animal with high int (meaning above 2), yes its literally written in the rules that your Avian, Biped, Quadruped, Quadruped Hexapod, Quadruped Hooves, Quadruped Squat Body, Saurian, and Serpentine can wear headbands as in this gentleman's example (the only categories that cannot are Piscine (like a seal), and Venomous (scorpion, spider, etc)). The exact items each animal companion can wear are detailed on page 1 of the Animal Archive (official paizo book circa 2013 or something).The only thing you are wrong about is you can’t design a new animal with Int 3 without rule 0 away the type rules. You can’t advance an animal to Int 3 without magical ways.
None of that seems relevant to the OP’s question, and I agree 100% to all you said.
The OP seems to be asking a ton of “Ask Your GM” questions about child animals, animal companions taking class levels or feats to gain an animal companion.
Actually, and I don't know how I failed to put this in the op, but I was basically asking about the rules conflict between the Collar of the True Companion when combined with the rules about Permanent Bonuses to Ability Scores, vs the rules in the Animal Type that say that animals can't have an Intelligence greater than 2. Since the Collar doesn't say it has to be used on an animal companion, this means there is a rule conflict about completely regular animals, since I was under the impression that regular animals couldn't have an int greater than 2.
I know animal companions can have their intelligence raised, but they are (maybe were now) the exception, not the rule.
As for asking the GM, I am the GM in this case, and I prefer to follow the rules as closely as possible. I could make something up here, but if my players ever found a way to abuse that, (not that they would, we're all family and family friends, but still,) I'd feel bad about having to change my previous ruling, because I like to have continuity in how I run stuff so my players can feel like it is a semi realistic world they are playing in.
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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No rules conflict exists.
Animals can’t be created with Int 3.
Animals can’t put ability point increases inInt beyond 2.
Animals can have Int 3 with magical methods and Druid Animal Companion (which I assumed was Su but I can’t confirm).
It could be up to the GM as to whether or not Eye for Talent lets you do +2 to Int.
| wraithstrike |
To answer the OP's question the base version of an animal companion can not have an int above 2 without an ability or magic that calls out animals in general.
edit:removed eye for talent reference because it calls out animal companions and other pet types such as bonded mounts, which would not fit the OP's question.
| Sah |
Note that while the monster guidelines talk about a maximum Int for an animal, this only applies to the creation process. Giving an animal a higher Intelligence score does not somehow transform it into a magical beast, unless the effect says otherwise, such as in the case of awaken. Animals can grow to have an Int higher than 2 through a variety of means, but they should not, as a general rule, be created that way.
From the blog post found Here
Seems obvious to me that this has been true for a while.