| ohako |
So, this is my actual PFS character, and I've gotten up to level 7 of this build. I figure I'd post it and see what people would change, or what magic items beside the big six you'd go for.
toothy half-orc
unchained rogue 7/slayer 2/ranger 2
traits: Militia (+1 Atk when flanking), Indomitable Faith (in Gorum and Norgorber, pan-theology is fun!)
starting abilities
Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8
feats/class powers:
slayer 1 Improved Initiative
rogue 1 Weapon Finesse
slayer 2 Cleave, slayer talent: ranger combat style: two-handed: Power Attack
rogue 2 rogue talent: combat trick: Surprise Follow-Through, +1 Strength
rogue 3 Step Up, finesse training (kerambit) (just in case)
rogue 4 rogue talent: weapon training: Weapon Focus (greataxe)
rogue 5 Press to the Wall, rogue's edge: Acrobatics
::for the future::
ranger 1 favored enemy: humanoid (dwarf) (RP reasons) and lead blades on a wand
ranger 2 retrain Cleave and Surprise Follow-Through to Dodge and Mobility, take ranger combat style: two-handed: Cleave and Surprise Follow-Through
rogue 6 rogue talent: emboldening strike (would have taken it sooner, but I've got chronicles on this fellow from...2014? so I didn't know it existed)
rogue 7 Canny Tumble
The overarching theme is: doing more with sneak attack, usually without having to succeed at a secondary roll (I hate feinting).
Improved Initiative: better chance at sneak attacking on round 1
Surprise Follow-Through: sneak attack on a cleave
Press to the Wall: flank with trees and rocks
Canny Tumble: sneak attack after moving
The overarching weakness is: Will saves! yikes!
a) So far I've pretty much bought consumables, adamantine weapon and armor, a nice ranged weapon or 4, and big six magic items (weapon, armor, cloak, ring, belt). What else should I grab?
b) I don't suppose there's a chronicle out there that offers fractional save bonuses from Pathfinder Unchained? that would be nifty...if there is, don't tell me which one it's on, I don't want to know that.
c) Say I'm adjacent to a creature at the start of my turn. Is it better to take a 5-foot step to maybe get into a better flank position later and full attack (first axe, second axe, bite), or Canny Tumble the same 5 feet and make just one attack that sneaks?
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Looks fun.
a) Maybe get a wand of owl's wisdom to help with Will saves and Perception and Survival checks until you can get the right headgear.
b) ???
c) I think the 5 foot step and 3 attacks is better, especially if you can flank and get that nifty +2 to hit.
Maybe take a few levels of inquisitor for better Will saves and Teamwork Feats, like Outflank.
| ohako |
@SmiloDan yep. It hasn't happened yet, but say I take a bunch of Strength damage from poison. I'll still have a backup melee weapon and get +Dex to atk and dmg.
@Chess Pwn It doesn't come up every session (sadly), but it does come up. I do agree though that Great Cleave and Improved Suprise Follow-Through are junk. Hmm, think of it like a melee way to punish bunching up. It's also a great way to get off more than one attack after moving.
Lyoto Machida
|
Hard to really buff up will saves as most martials, but maybe something like the Four Leaf Clover from Occult adventures?
+2 luck bonus three times a day as a free action, on a single ability check, skill check or Saving Throw. it costs 3750. Which is not a bad deal.
| ohako |
@UlagSonofNone I had thought about that archetype for a good long while, because that has a lot of the same powers that I want from my feats. I ended up passing because I don't really want to charge if I can help it. Also I was unsure if using the Cleave feat counted as the 'attack action' or as a separate action. With Canny Tumble I'm pretty sure I can still Cleave if I'm able.
Here's a silly question: Is there a way to take a 5-foot step that does provoke because of movement? (This is convoluted) That way I could try an Acrobatics check to negate the provocation, which would let me full attack, with the first attack modified by Canny Tumble. Like, some sort of boots of walking funny or something?
@Lyoto-san I am totally getting a four-leaf clover and jamming it into the little ioun stone slot in my wayfinder.
@SmiloDan Maybe? I can't retrain traits, but I could spend 20 days (and 20 prestige points) getting some smaller prosthetic teeth and a fancy new tattoo. mmm...I think I'm just going to buy the clover, though!
| UnArcaneElection |
Just noticed something:
{. . .}
ranger 2 retrain Cleave and Surprise Follow-Through to Dodge and Mobility, take ranger combat style: two-handed: Cleave and Surprise Follow-Through {. . .}
Retraining Surprise Follow-Through when you get Ranger 2 doesn't make much sense, because it isn't a Ranger Combat Style Feat. Just retrain it after you get Cleave as a Ranger Combat Style Feat, so that you aren't violating the rule that you can't retrain a feat that is a prerequisite for a feat that you aren't retraining.
Slyme
|
One trick I like to use sometimes is to make my full attack, and then use my 5' step afterwards. I have someone else I play with who loves to team up against people with me where we will literally swap places with each other using that trick so we can both get flanking with another team mate on the other side of an opponent.
You could always buy a +wis headband to bump up your will saves a bit. There are also a couple Ioun stones which give save bonuses.
| ohako |
@SmiloDan You can only negate provoking movement-based AoOs with Acrobatics, which is what triggers Canny Tumble. If I could somehow move without using a move action, (or, '5-foot fumbling'), then I could both Canny Tumble out of it and get a full attack
@UnArcaneElection This retraining thing is just because I'm at level 7 already and I discovered a cool feat I want that has two prerequisites. So I need a bonus feat from somewhere. I looked at all my options, and I picked ranger for the skill points. Trouble is, my bonus feat has to be in two-handed style, and I've already got all the feats I need from there. So I thought the thing to do would be to retrain the Cleave feat I took at level 3 into Dodge, and take it again with my ranger combat style. But I thought that retraining a feat I took as a prerequisite meant that I had to retrain the last feat as well. Surprise Follow-Through I can replace with another combat feat (as per the combat trick rogue talent, so Mobility), and then I can take it again as my normal feat at 9th.
Am I thinking about retraining wrong?
@Slyme I will have to look at ioun stones too. Lesse...maybe a cracked pale green prism? Kinda pricey, and the amber stone doesn't stack with a cloak. I might buy a wand of owl's wisdom. Not as pricey as the stone or a headband, but I can use it when I know there's going to be trouble.
| DthKnell |
If you only need a bonus feat, why not go with Brawler? You get a little bit less skills, but two bonus feats (Improved Unarmed Strike and any other combat feat), Martial Flexbility and Brawler's flurry. Or skip Martial Flexibility and take Snakebite striker to get an extra sneak attack die.
I like this build, it feels different than the usual brawny rogue type. Well thought out, if I was starting a new Pathfinder game soon, I think I'd give it a try (though with a chained version of the rogue, probably bandit so I can move AND take advantage of Cleave in a surprise round).
| UnArcaneElection |
{. . .}
@UnArcaneElection This retraining thing is just because I'm at level 7 already and I discovered a cool feat I want that has two prerequisites. So I need a bonus feat from somewhere. I looked at all my options, and I picked ranger for the skill points. Trouble is, my bonus feat has to be in two-handed style, and I've already got all the feats I need from there. So I thought the thing to do would be to retrain the Cleave feat I took at level 3 into Dodge, and take it again with my ranger combat style. But I thought that retraining a feat I took as a prerequisite meant that I had to retrain the last feat as well. Surprise Follow-Through I can replace with another combat feat (as per the combat trick rogue talent, so Mobility), and then I can take it again as my normal feat at 9th.Am I thinking about retraining wrong?
{. . .}
No, but from your originally posted build, it looked like you were retraining and then re-acquiring Surprise Follow-Through at the same level. Even being 2 levels off from each other, it seems inefficient, although given the cramped build room of PFS, you might have to do it anyway, unless you dip Fighter to get an extra Bonus Combat Feat (or two).