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Hangman get whip proficiency.
Any vigilante can get the feat for taking Combat Skill.
Any character can take the feat for the proficiency at BAB +1
Though it gives me an idea... Since you ignore prerequisites, could get get Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization with an improvised weapon?
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The suggested fix to this for whip-loving vigilantes is to be adopted by half-orcs so they can get experience as a caravan drover.
... Since you ignore prerequisites, could get get Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization with an improvised weapon?Depends. It says "select one type of weapon". So do improvised weapons count as weapons? It always seems to come down to that.
If they are, it'd be great. If they aren't, then I'd think that individual types of improvised weapon would. For instance, Crowbar, Hammer, Miner's pick, Combat scabbard, Shovel, Sledge, Stiletto boots and torch are individual listed items that say they are improvised weapons. In addition, the adventurer's armory 2 lists "Typical Improvised Weapons":
Light Weapons:Arrow or bolt (as melee weapons), book, bottle, broken bottle, bucket, chisel, frying pan, kitchen knife, rolling pin, scissors, skull, spade, straight razor, or tankard.One-Handed Weapons: Branding iron, candlestick, chain, chair leg, crowbar, femur, grappling hook, scabbard, scepter, shovel, or walking stick.
Two-Handed Weapons: Brazier, chair, digging bar, metal pipe, ornamental greatsword, pitchfork, Small statue.
Yeah, they CAN get proficiency, it is just odd that they can get all of the above without it.
It is your opinion that this is working as intended?
LOL A Two-Weapon Warrior fighter revolves 100% around two weapon fighting but doesn't automatically gain the feat... I think it a LOT odder in that case than some optional abilities that are tangential to the class as a whole.
I suppose that Half-Orc raised Tieflings are well represented within Whip Master ranks.
Or hangman vigilante of any race. The abilities seem custom made for the archetype. ;)
So is that a yes? Not sure what the two weapon fighting special attack has to do with anything...
It's a yes. We have a LONG list of archetypes that do what you're talking about, going back as long as we've had archetypes. It's not unusual to see it, more uncommon, and what's actually unusual is to see the Dev's say it's wrong*. For the Vigilante I think it's a case of the ones that have (or take) the whip proficiency taking the optional talents.
* this happens mostly when it's a main feature, like shields and Shield Champion.
As to two weapon fighting: You are asking if it's odd to get a feat/ability without the base required feat. That entire archetype is based on/revolves around a feat, two weapon fighting, but the class doesn't get it.
If the vigilante takes the abilities, they need to get proficiency or take a -4.
If the fighter archetype uses his SET abilities, they need to take two weapon fighting or take a -2/-4.
The example seems spot on IMO. That archetype has been around since ultimate combat and seems to be working as intended. Sometimes you're required to use your feats to take full advantage of the abilities you have or can take.
Honestly I would expect Signature Weapon and Whip of Vengeance to require you to be proficient already.
I feel like this is a self-correcting problem though. If you want to invest a bunch of feats and class features into a weapon with which you have a -4 penalty to attack with, by all means do so but if a single feat (or trait even) can resolve that -4 penalty, why wouldn't you do that?
Nah, I was making a joke about Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Fighting (Feat) having the same name. Honestly I would expect Signature Weapon and Whip of Vengeance to require you to be proficient already.
LOL Look at the ranger with the natural weapon style, Weapon Adept Monk, Hamatulatsu Master Monk and Zen Archer... They all can get a weapon focus in a non-proficient weapon too!!
I feel like this is a self-correcting problem though. If you want to invest a bunch of feats and class features into a weapon with which you have a -4 penalty to attack with, by all means do so but if a single feat (or trait even) can resolve that -4 penalty, why wouldn't you do that?
This is pretty much how I see it. Is it a loophole? Maybe, but is it a beneficial one? Not really and in fact most times it involves an active detriment to your character [a -4 hit]. As such, it seems like it's working as intended.
They all can get a weapon focus in a non-proficient weapon too!!Which is still odd.
It's an oddity that keeps reappearing with no sign of changing. Once you notice a pattern of conduct across multiple archetypes... It's hard to see it as a mistake anymore and more like an acceptance of it's existence as 'normal'. starting from APG to inner sea combat to UI, there is a long history of allowing weapon focus to ignore proficiency.
Pretty sure this is one of those 'well, if you really want to, go ahead, but I wouldn't recommend it' situations.