First, the paladin must kill the priest since he is dishonorable. Then to keep his code,the paladin must become the captain's loyal servant, attending to his every whim until such a time that the captain allows the paladin to kill himself.
He's a Paladin of Seranrae. Who bravely knee caps the evil captain and claims victory!
He's a Paladin of Seranrae. Who bravely knee caps the evil captain and claims victory!
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Seranrae Papadin Code:
--I will protect my allies with my life. They are my light and my strength, as I am their light and their strength. We rise together.
--I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying. If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find allies.
--If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.
--I am fair to others. I expect nothing for myself but that which I need to survive.
--The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.
--I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will redeem them by the sword.
--I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith, and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be bought for all the stars in the sky.
--I will show the less fortunate the light of the Dawnflower. I will live my life as her mortal blade, shining with the light of truth.
--Each day is another step toward perfection. I will not turn back into the dark.
Looking at at point three, inaction via surrender which could result in his allies' deaths would be a case of breaking his paladin code so I'd say he's okay for now for kneecapping the guard.
Sarenrae is the best. :)
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Seranrae does have the clause: "I will fight fairly when the fight is fair"
Getting help from outside in a one on one duel is not fair. It isn't fair whether or not the Paladin planned it, or was the cause of it.
I don't know of any Paladin code that would allow him to continue the fight under these circumstances.
Of course he can break his code, maybe win and atone later, but that is something an individual would decide.
Was the BBEG higher level?
If so, it wasn't a fair fight.
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The paladin disappears in a puff of logic morality.
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^-^
Better than Morality disappearing in a puff of expedience.
In this particular case the Paladin was rendered unconscious then healed. His allies a psychic attacked the Captain. The rouge moved into the flank. The Oracle healed him and then he attacked from the ground.
...that sounds pretty unfair.
Agree, Paladin Falls.
(The unshown last season of Gravity Falls?)
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Here is an interesting situation.
A paladin agrees to a one on one duel to the death with a certain evil captain of a witch's guard. the paladin after a valiant effort falls unconscious at the captain's feet. With no request or previous agreement the paladin's comrade (a Priest) runs into combat and cures the paladin to 4 hp. What should the paladin's next action be in keeping with the paladin's code? what action(s) would lead him to having to atone? There where no preset conditions mentioned before the duel except that it was to the death.
Even if the code permits this, the Paladin is Lawful, so to cheat at his duel will cause inner turmoil.
The Paladin could attempt to rectify the situation during the duel. Offering a free hit, would certainly be a way to do this, plus it shows the priest the dedication that the paladin has towards keeping the fight honorable and fair.
All that said, I really don't think a paladin would be too keen on a duel to the death, especially so if they are devoted to a deity of redemption (like sarenrae). So atonement may be needed in any case. Really, paladins (and other Good-aligned characters) shouldn't be trying to create more death, so a duel to the death seem very un-paladin-like, even if it is honorable.
A paladin would be likely to request a duel that is to death or until their opponent yields, even if neither the paladin nor their opponent would ever actually yeild, having the option makes it better for the paladin's morality. Even an honorable duel to the death is still a premeditated kill if the only way to end the duel is killing.
In this particular case the Paladin was rendered unconscious then healed. His allies a psychic attacked the Captain. The rouge moved into the flank. The Oracle healed him and then he attacked from the ground.
With this additional information, while I still don't think it's a fall, he may get a little bit of warning from Seranrae such as a warning in a dream to tell him not to do something like that again. That said, if he has a done less than lawful acts ignoring or lying merely for convince in the past, this may have been the final act too far and even Seranrae will withdraw his powers.
Joining in on a gang up against an opponent after agreeing to a one on one fight is a very chaotic act that should put him at risk of alignment change should he not work to be more careful to keep his word. If he worshiped a god more focused on truth or honor like Torag, he'd fall the second he swung.
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In this particular case the Paladin was rendered unconscious then healed. His allies a psychic attacked the Captain. The rouge moved into the flank. The Oracle healed him and then he attacked from the ground.
Sarenrae would not approve of a fight to the death in the first place. The issue is that a fight to the death does not leave room for redemption. Different if the opponent has the evil subtype or is undead, but there was no need for duel in that cast.
Anyway, judging from that extra info, I would both drop his alignment and make him atone. Atonement for actively seeking to kill an opponent in a manner that doesn't allow for redemption and I would probably drop his alignment two steps, to True Neutral, as this combat is both dishonorable and more obviously a premeditated murder. Attacking from the ground clarifies that the paladin was not repentent, or seeing error in their actions, and was instead fighting to win at any cost and using the duel as lie to get their opponent to drop their guard.
Honestly, this sort of roleplaying would make me consider disallowing the Player to play paladins, since they clearly don't grasp the concept.
...is there a way to actively seek to kill someone that does allow for redemption?
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...is there a way to actively seek to kill someone that does allow for redemption?
A good aligned character shouldn't be seeking to kill anyone. That said, they can certainly have objectives that result in situations where killing is the only option, but causing death should never be the goal for a good character.
Regarding a Duel, yes, that one is simple. Amend the Duel as a Fight to Death OR if your opponent admits defeat.
By having the option to surrender without dying, the fight to the death is not longer about killing the opponent, it's about defeating them. And admiting defeat is a good step towards redemption.
Oh look, another paladin thread.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
OAUP condition met.
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Oh look, another paladin thread.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Wait! This one could turn out different!
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...is there a way to actively seek to kill someone that does allow for redemption?
Oh, I see your point. Missed it the first time You were asking about what I said regarding need atonement. That one is regarding Sarenrae, not good alignments. Sarenrae teaches redemption, so killing people without giving them the option for redemption seems like something she wouldn't condone and the paladin would need atonement for going against there god's teachings. A Neutral Cleric of Sarenrae could actively seek to kill someone, but they would need to grant the option of redemption.
The dishonorable behaviour doesn't matter to Sarenrae, but would it violate the Paladin's alignment, which is required for the class. So I would drop the lawful aspect of the Paladin's alignment for this.
The act of seeking to create death is non-good behaviour, and premeditated fight to the death certainly qualifies (a duel is premeditated because you agreed to it in advance). So I'd drop the Good aspect of the player's alignment to neutral for this.
So the character would be True Neutral AND require atonement.
And doing this sort of thing all at once, seems like the Player just doesn't grasp Paladins, so I'd give them a talking to. If it seemed clear that this was something that would not happen again, I'm probably let it slide without actually changing their alignment or needing atonement. If they didn't seem to learn from it, I'd ban them from playing paladins at my table (let them recreate that character as a fighter or something). A paladin shouldn't be falling on all fronts over a single encounter, the gradual fall of a paladin is part of their class, but falling quickly like this is something else and should have been addressed in "paladin school." No need to penalize the player for being unable to role play paladins, but at the same time, I don't want them to continue playing paladins.