Huh? Oh yeah I go this.
In bestiary 6 they're listed as CR25.
Thanks. I found it.
A simple 6 level build filled with cheese. Lets say figther 1 wizard (diviner) 5
Human for race.Stuff for iniative
Forewarned +4 and always get to act
Greensting scorpion +4
Improved iniative +4
Reactionary +2And with my wbl buy a cyclops helm
This means for the encounter i have an iniative of 34 and can always act in the suprise round. The highest a horseman can get is 33 so i get to go first.
I buy a blinkback belt. And pick up with my feats quickdraw. I think we all know where this is going.
I choose a throwing quickdraw shield as my bonded object. I start with a masterwork one and i am treated as having the crafting feats for it. Make it a distance throwing shield.
Baddabing badboom.
I now can make infinite free action attacks. Max damage is 21 on a crit. Just enough to hit past the dr.
From 200 feat away mister kerfullels here spews out attacks until they are all dead.
Never try this in a campaign and this is clearly unintentional.
I seem to remember being able to throw a shield as a free action, but I can't find the text anymore. Did something change?
I seem to remember being able to throw a shield as a free action, but I can't find the text anymore. Did something change?A simple 6 level build filled with cheese. Lets say figther 1 wizard (diviner) 5
Human for race.Stuff for iniative
Forewarned +4 and always get to act
Greensting scorpion +4
Improved iniative +4
Reactionary +2And with my wbl buy a cyclops helm
This means for the encounter i have an iniative of 34 and can always act in the suprise round. The highest a horseman can get is 33 so i get to go first.
I buy a blinkback belt. And pick up with my feats quickdraw. I think we all know where this is going.
I choose a throwing quickdraw shield as my bonded object. I start with a masterwork one and i am treated as having the crafting feats for it. Make it a distance throwing shield.
Baddabing badboom.
I now can make infinite free action attacks. Max damage is 21 on a crit. Just enough to hit past the dr.
From 200 feat away mister kerfullels here spews out attacks until they are all dead.
Never try this in a campaign and this is clearly unintentional.
Eh I could still take ya.
i do believe it was faqed not to work that wayI seem to remember being able to throw a shield as a free action, but I can't find the text anymore. Did something change?A simple 6 level build filled with cheese. Lets say figther 1 wizard (diviner) 5
Human for race.Stuff for iniative
Forewarned +4 and always get to act
Greensting scorpion +4
Improved iniative +4
Reactionary +2And with my wbl buy a cyclops helm
This means for the encounter i have an iniative of 34 and can always act in the suprise round. The highest a horseman can get is 33 so i get to go first.
I buy a blinkback belt. And pick up with my feats quickdraw. I think we all know where this is going.
I choose a throwing quickdraw shield as my bonded object. I start with a masterwork one and i am treated as having the crafting feats for it. Make it a distance throwing shield.
Baddabing badboom.
I now can make infinite free action attacks. Max damage is 21 on a crit. Just enough to hit past the dr.
From 200 feat away mister kerfullels here spews out attacks until they are all dead.
Never try this in a campaign and this is clearly unintentional.
Well one would hope so.
You monsters, you want to kill Death? And his horse Binky too?!
Susan will have no one left!
were not killing the disc world death silly. Completely different death.
Geysers don't run out. The duration is Concentration +40 rounds.
Even if Geysermancer decides not to maintain concentration, that's a lot of time to Gate in help.
I don't know how many Solars it's going to take to drop the Horseman, but I can guess how many the Guysermancer's going to use...
Anything they summon to fight the horseman is going to get dazed by their geysers unless it attacks from range. Once the first Solars gets summoned you have about 39 rounds to kill the horsemen. Which solars cannot do(their highest BAB attack at range hits Charon on a 17). And as soon as any of the 8 guys you have pinned makes a their saves you're screwed. Which will happen.
Against two persistent geysers Charon has to roll 4 tens for his saves. The others having to roll be between 4 elevens and 4 13s.
It won't happen right away but it'll happen well before 40 turns is up.
So yeah geyser guy can stall em for a while (a lot longer if he is mythical) but without optimised DPR support he will die.
i do believe it was faqed not to work that wayI seem to remember being able to throw a shield as a free action, but I can't find the text anymore. Did something change?A simple 6 level build filled with cheese. Lets say figther 1 wizard (diviner) 5
Human for race.Stuff for iniative
Forewarned +4 and always get to act
Greensting scorpion +4
Improved iniative +4
Reactionary +2And with my wbl buy a cyclops helm
This means for the encounter i have an iniative of 34 and can always act in the suprise round. The highest a horseman can get is 33 so i get to go first.
I buy a blinkback belt. And pick up with my feats quickdraw. I think we all know where this is going.
I choose a throwing quickdraw shield as my bonded object. I start with a masterwork one and i am treated as having the crafting feats for it. Make it a distance throwing shield.
Baddabing badboom.
I now can make infinite free action attacks. Max damage is 21 on a crit. Just enough to hit past the dr.
From 200 feat away mister kerfullels here spews out attacks until they are all dead.
Never try this in a campaign and this is clearly unintentional.
In that case it was likely errata'd, which is why I don't see the free attack anymore.
Throwing shield Is what he is thinking of.
Plus he definitely wouldn't keep them dazed long enough.
Solars all have particularly nasty bows and a bunch of nasty spell-likes. And since they were gated in they can summon more solars.
Since the game is designed for parties, and the villains are designed for Mythic, there might be some of that floating around too.
I'm assuming Geyser will have backup, and/or will be more powerful than the basic build.
A mythic version of geyser mancer could definitely keep them pinned longer.
The solars even stummoning more solars, would struggle to kill the horsemen given their deific regent and high AC.
Like I said a mythic party could definitely do it and wouldn't require as much optimisation as some people have mentioned.
If you have a party i think you could do it. Unsure about solo
Geysermancer, Someone with variant Channel Luck (effective +10 to the DC) as the core for CC. As it becomes Natural 20 range for success
But really once you have the Save Dc at 55 (afaik thier highest will save is +35) everything else is whatever.
Maybe a Bard for the inspire courage +5 or 6 (I recall there being 2 items that boost performance value by 1 each). This is to buff all the solar's so they have a more respectable to hit. That Plus them casting divine power on themselves puts them at like a +47 to hit. Vs an AC of 40 unless they are immune to flat footed as we are denying them any chance of acting. Maybe have or get imbued with crashing waves hex to knock them prone.
Alternatively skip the Solar's and have an order of the flame cavalier with +N Challenge damage where N is however many things you've killed beforehand. Who with just drops 1-2 Horseman a round into negatives with his unlimited damage and their total inability to fight back.
Have a wizard who spec'd into baleful poly-morph use ascendant spell on the downed horsemen to strip them of their powers forever without actually killing them (i don't see anything that says they are immune to Polymorph).
Or maybe use a Poisoner to do ability damage (Celestial poison) on their mental scores so as not to kill them but to render them unconscious/helpless.
I mean a mythic chain lightning sorc could do enough damage in one round to put them at -several hundred hit points, but these incredibly high optimisation builds aren't terribly conducive to a fun encounter for a full party in my experience.
Hence finding a balance between optimisation and research to make strategy and tactics necessary. I think there would need to be a fine balance to make this encounter work.
Throwing shield Is what he is thinking of.
ok. I just checked on the FAQ that someone mentioned. This idea doesn't work per the FAQ, and errata is supposed to be coming during the next release.
Throwing Shield: The throwing shield says that it has special straps “that allow you to unclasp and throw it as a free action.” It seems likely that “unclasp and throw” means “unclasp in order to throw” but it could also mean “unclasp and additionally throw” which could give a character any number of extra attacks. Which interpretation is correct?
Throwing shield’s wording means you can unclasp as a free action in order to throw it; [/b]throwing it would requires its own action[/b]. The wording will be updated to disambiguate in the next errata.
However the geysermancer still works.
I know a mythic build that could kill them all in one round. It's not hard with hyper optimised mythic but like I said those builds aren't really much fun for the rest of the party in my experience.
Last time I checked the raw for mythic vital strike was particularly borked, might have been changed though.
Mythic works pretty well as long as you flat out ban Mythic Power Attack, Mythic Vital Strike, the abilities that let characters cst any spell they have as swift actions, the ability that grants extra standard actions for a Power Point (mythic initiative, I think), and the Legendary Weapon abilities that allow maximizing damage and resolving attacks against Touch AC. Those are the big offenders.
Weirdly, the only Mythic Spell option that is seriously borked is Mythic Featherfall. (That said, spells don't really need mythic options at all. Cutting the mythic versions doesn't change the power scale much even when Mythic is added to enemies)
Pretty much everything else is fine.
I have found that Mythic (banning the stuff I mentioned) is a great way of fixing the Caster/Martial Disparity. Give non-casters Mythic ranks at 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20th levels. It works much better than I expected.
Just get four "vacuum"s (the necromancer that won beastmass), all win init, all cast suffocation, they dead.
Vacuum's big trick relied on mass suffocation, IIRC. You only need one.
were not killing the disc world death silly. Completely different death.
No. He's even harder to kill. Definitely breaks action economy in reaper man, for example. Wouldn't want to try.
I actually have nothing to contribute to the thread proper, I admit.