Wild Speculation: major (N)PCs as a Characters?

[Tacticslion]

So I've been in early negotiations with a player who's interested in playing Eutropia as a vigilante - no surprise, there!

I'm curious if anyone has good ideas for incorporating her or other important NPCs into the narrative as PCs?

[W E Ray]

Eutropia in WftC:

Eutropia is the NPC who hires the PCs. First to protect her manor, then to do other stuff. She can't be one of the PCs if you're playing it as published.

[Tacticslion]

Thanks for the feedback!

One of the reasons I made this thread was for people to point out potential problems so we could talk about them.

You raise a solid point, but it actually doesn't much hold.

Spoiler:

Spoiler aside, I could see byzantine* intrigue plots and reasons. After all, why would a princess be going on adventures? That's just... common.

It would make a great deal of sense that she would hire a group of adventurers to do things that she would not be "allowed" to do on her own.

* heh, unintentional

While changes would have to be made, that's kind of the point - how, precisely, might those changes be enacted? Why? In what way should we handle this?

[W E Ray]

If Eutropia is a main NPC in WftC, maybe, maybe, a DM could modify the campaign so that one PC is Eutropia and the other PCs are her childhood friends or something and, as a group, they play through the adventure path, not because they support Eutropia's claim or what not from a distance -- but because they are Eutropia and her long-time allies -- the ones that would become the arch-wizard of Taldor and the Seneschal and the military General and such -- once she comes to power.

The problem there is, of course, how would you start at first level?

And certainly, the DM would have to be able to read over the AP to see if that modification really is possible.

[Matthew Morris]

W E Ray wrote:

The problem there is, of course, how would you start at first level?

Not sure that's not possible. After all Ezren is a first level old man...

[Tacticslion]

Exactly.

Basically, this thread is meant to generate those exact ideas and comparisons!

"How are you first level?"

"Here are some possible ideas..."

[W E Ray]

If Eutrpia is only, say, 18 or 19 at start of the campaign, maybe she's only just started thinking about being a secret vigilante for Taldor.

I'm not sure if I know any other published NPCs for Taldor, but....

In our Taldor campaign I played the son of one of Stavian's personal guard, the Ulfen Guard. You could always be the son or daughter of a powerful Duke or an Ulfen Guard or Lion Blade or something. But I guess those are just generic characters, not named NPCs.

[Tacticslion]

W E Ray wrote:

If Eutrpia is only, say, 18 or 19 at start of the campaign, maybe she's only just started thinking about being a secret vigilante for Taldor.

Alt possibility!

She's been a vigilante, or pretty little princess aristocrat, or some other similar thing, but then:

- successful assassination attempt against her by a former friend or Red Mantis or unusual accident resulting in death (+) a problematic version of some form of returning the dead to life (or something went wrong) causing a loss of levels

- she's in the middle of retraining those old NPC levels into new ones, and it just so happens to take the levels first and gain the levels at the pace of the AP

- she's low level (again, as Matthew Morris noted: Ezren is an old age-category man who just became a first level wizard, in any given AP/game he starts in)

- she's been in need of <thing> and, in preparing for <events in this AP>, she made <bargain> with <prooooooooooobably-non-evil force> to exchange much of her personal power and skill to <do thing>; this is not publicized for obvious reasons, and some of her skill loss must be hidden (and regained - a perfect reason to begin working with the heroes incognito!) by (perhaps) stand-ins or wax golems or simulacra (created earlier on) or whatever (bonus: she can appear in two places at once!)

- hand-waive it (not my preferred solution, but, you know... it's how it goes!)

And that's just Eutropia!

There's also the former Grand Prince himself (perhaps a reincarnate gone wrong?) or High Strategos Maxillar Pythareus, Dominicus Rell, Admiral Kasaba, Merriweather Stokes, Father Basri, any of these people (novel optional, but encouraged), and anyone else folk might be able to unearth via wiki link clicking! (I ran out of time, now.) :D

[Tacticslion]

High Stategos Maxillar Pythareus
-> probably a lore warden, cavalier (most kinds are valid), magus (standard, eldritch scion, hex magus, or myrmidarch), or even holy tactician paladin or maybe even arcanist or wizard; as we don't have an alignment, and I have no other information, there is little to use other than "he's a super-important military general" - and there are a ton of ways to recreate that

Dominicus Rell
- bard, rogue, lion blade
-> sandman bard, up to 5th level (using accomplished sneak attacker) then lion blade
(As an aside, has anyone ever made a sandman sandman? I can't imagine no one has done this. Maybe even a dunesage sandman sandman.)

Kasaba
- commoner, fighter, expert
-> lore warden fighter, slayer, (corsair or daring infiltrator) swashbuckler; pretty much any of those

Merriweather
- bard, lion blade
-> so pretty clearly, something hinky is going on here - I suspect retraining to qualify for the PrC after-the-fact; otherwise, see Rell

Father Basri
-> I'd tend to guess a cleric, RAW, but becoming something like an oracle means he could keep the faith alive with the miraculous, even if he no longer has a direct clerical connection to the divine

[Michael Talley 759]

My wild Speculation of

The Princess:

Princess Eutropia
LN, Human[taldorian], Aristocrat 2
medium, Humanoid (Human)

Init: +0 ,Senses: Perception +6
AC: 10 Touch: 10 Flat-Footed: 10
HP: 11 (2d8+2)
Fortitude +1 Reflex +0 Will +7

Speed: 30ft
Melee: Light Mace +1 (1d6)

Str 10 Dex 10 Con 13 Int 12 wis 14 cha 15
BAB +1 CMB +1 CMD 11
Feats
Iron Will, Skill Focus[Diplomacy]

Skills
Bluff +7, Diplomacy +10, Disguise +7, Knowledge [History] +5
Knowledge [Nobility] +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +6
Perform [oratory] +6, Sense Motive +7, Survival +6

Languages: Common, Varisian

Equipment

Noble's Outfit, Signet Ring, Light Mace

Strong willed and still diplomatic and around the same CR as the starting group of adventurer's
with an extra language slot open for speaking with the group if they have someone more exotic among them

[Michael Talley 759]

The Princess Aristocrat 7/ Swashbuckler 6:

Princess Eutropia
NG, Human[taldorian], Aristocrat 7/ Swashbuckler 6
medium, Humanoid (Human)

Init: +5 ,Senses: Perception +17
AC: 28 Touch: 14 Flat-Footed: 24 (+2 Dex, +9 Armor, +4 Shield, +1 Dodge, +1 Natural, +1 deflection)
HP: 87 (7d8+6d10+13)
Fortitude +5 Reflex +11 Will +11

Speed: 30ft
Melee: MWK Cold Iron Rapier +15 (1d6+3/18-20 P)

Str 10 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 12 wis 14 cha 15
BAB +11 CMB +11 CMD 22
Feats
Iron Will, Skill Focus[Diplomacy], Weapon Focus [Rapier],
Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Improved Initiative,
Weapon Specialization [Rapier], Dodge, Mobility

Special
Deeds 2, Panache [2pt's/day], Swashbuckler Finesse, Charmed Life 4/day
Nimble +1, Swashbuckler Weapon Training 1

Deeds
Dodging Panache, Precise Strike

Skills
Bluff +13, Diplomacy +15, Disguise +7,Knowledge[local] +10,
Knowledge [History] +16, Knowledge [Nobility] +10, Linguistics +5,
Perception +17, Perform [oratory] +17, Sense Motive +18, Survival +6

Languages: Common, Varisian

Equipment

Noble's Outfit, Signet Ring, +3 Breastplate, +3 Buckler, +1 Ring of Protection
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor, Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2, MWK Cold Iron rapier,
3 Potions of Cure Light Wounds, 5 Gold Pieces

just a wild speculation how she might look in the adventure set of Taldor since her levels where given in the new Taldor Campaign setting :-3

[Souls At War]

Would be nice to have some dev/writter chime in on this.

[Tacticslion]

I'm hype!

[Zaister]

Tacticslion wrote:

And that's just Eutropia!

There's also the former Grand Prince himself (perhaps a reincarnate gone wrong?) or High Strategos Maxillar Pythareus, Dominicus Rell, Admiral Kasaba, Merriweather Stokes, Father Basri, any of...

High Strategos Pythareus isn't really a good idea since

Spoiler:

he's kind of the antagonist of this AP.

[AnimatedPaper]

So the AP says a bit about how the princess is a duelist, and one of the reasons the stuffier nobles are uncomfortable with her is that she brawls in the street like a commoner.
If you go for the vigilante, you might want to have some ideas on, if she's been open about her weapon skills and suffered through the grief over it, what she needed a second identity to accomplish.
She's hardly a sheltered or meek spring blossom. Also I imagine she's closer to 40 than 20.

[Zaister]

Eutropia was born one year before her brother Carrius II (Crownfall, p.55), who was "still-teenage" when he died (ibid., p.5), so he was probably around 18–19 then. Carrius died 20 years ago (p.20). Adding this all up results in Eutropia indeed being around 39–40.

By the way, she is listed as as mutliclass aristocrat/swashbucker.

[Jack Stargazer]

You'd have to rewrite the entire last two books and probably a lot in between as Eutropia is canonically doing other things at the same time as the PCS are doing their thing. Most importantly though:

HUGE PLOT SPOILER:

She dies in the 5th book and then you spend the 6th book trying to recover her soul. It's a major plot point.

This might be a case where you have to say no to a PC idea.

[WickedBlender]

maybe at your table the princess has a younger sister the PC could play the concept as?

[Ring_of_Gyges]

I haven't read the official one, but when I was planning a Taldan succession crisis my plan was to include Eutropia as a PC. My idea was that important decisions are going to have to be made, "do we support this faction or that faction", "So and so will support us if we do X unsavory thing, are we really willing to do it", "This faction wants a promise that if Eutropia becomes Empress she will pass Y law", etc...

My idea was that making those political decisions and living with their consequences (good and bad) would be the heart of the game. One option would be the PCs were advisors who made their pitch to the boss but she made the final decisions, but that seemed off. If the decisions and political/philosophical choices are the core of the game the players should be the one's making them. Another option would be the "boss" is really a rubber stamp and Eutropia just agrees to ratify whatever the party settles on, that didn't seem right either, it makes her too weak and more than a little pointless. I ended up settling on the idea that Eutropia needs to be a PC so that the player agency being centrally important to the game made sense and matched the character agency in the setting.