Let's set up an example for color spray.
The level 1 wizard has cast long arm on himself, with his second spell he wishes to cast color spray. To avoid attacks of opportunity he casts it one square away from the next (non reach, non large) enemy, but since the spell emanates from his hand, as he finishes casting he would be able to have it start one square further away, correct?
The text for Color Spray, Burning Hands and Cone of Cold specifically describe the spell emanating from your hand/fingertips.
Only relevant rule I could find:
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes.
It looks like by RAW it starts from adjacent to your square, not anywhere you can reach.
Of course, it's also possible that it was written that way on the assumption that a caster was a medium creature with normal reach; some GMs might allow you to benefit from having long arms in this way.
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Reach has nothing to do with it at all (with the exception of spells that require a melee touch attack). Spells start from your space, not the edge of your reach.
I would picture the scene visually as someone with long arm spell has effectively longer arms, long enough to reach very well into the next square and as initially hinted at:
shoots from your fingertips.
springs forth from your hand
originating at your hand and extending outward in a cone.
@Matthew Downie
Who's to say that your hand isn't part of you? I guess one could argue that this would apply to large enemies as well and would make the game more complicated.@Jeraa
Except possibly when the spells literally emanate from your hands...which have reach.
What you're saying makes perfect sense, but according to the rules the cone comes not from 'part of you', but from 'any corner of your square'.
I can see the case the 'fingertips' and 'your hand' quotes aren't just flavor text but are specific rules that should override the general cone spell rule... But I don't think that's really intended. A normal character with 5' reach can reach into the next square. Maybe they should be able to fire a cone from 5' away too?
For the spell to emanate from the second square the they would have to able to reach (comfortably) into the second square. But yeah, I can see that the rules may not allow this degree of coherence for the sake of simplicity.
An ogre mage oni has a reach of 10 ft, but it doesn't cast cone of cold any differently (even though that spell specifies that the cone "originates at your hand").
It might "feel" right to visualize it differently, but area spells really don't have anything at all to do with your reach, I'm afraid.
For the spell to emanate from the second square the they would have to able to reach (comfortably) into the second square. But yeah, I can see that the rules may not allow this degree of coherence for the sake of simplicity.
It isn't enough to be able to reach the square. You have to occupy the square.
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Large creatures with spells or spell-like abilities are pretty common. An Adult Red Dragon, for example, has a 15 foot reach with its bite. I would think that if cone effects were meant to work differently for creatures with reach, then that would be addressed in the rules.
Otherwise are we saying a dragon can start their breath weapon cone up to three squares away?
The rules for placing the cone templates are pretty specific. You pick a corner or edge of your space, and you use the appropriate template. This is a game of abstractions, not trying to completely mirror the "reality" of the situation. You do what is in the rules to determine the area of the cone, and that starts from a corner or edge of your space.
It's a fine house rule to allow reach with it, if that's something that is appealing. But I don't think it's supported in the rules, despite the flavor text.
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The rules are not written only with PCs in mind. Just look at the cover section. It goes into extreme detail about the differences for larger creatures and medium sized creatures (with actual, very welcome, examples!). Also, enlarge person is a 1st level spell that is in the core rulebook. PCs have been able to be large while casting a spell since the beginning of Pathfinder and before.
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won’t go around corners.
And, there are published rules on Bursts and Emanations for larger creatures. (Though they might come from an Adventure Path? I'm unclear on the citation on PFSRD, and I haven't tracked them down in the book yet.)
Source AP91
The rules often assume that creatures are Medium or Small. In the case of a handful of spells or effects with areas that feature a “radius emanation centered on you” such as antimagic field, aura of doom, and zone of silence, as well as some of the spells presented in this section, this can result in an area that is effectively useless when coming from a Large or larger caster. As an optional rule, when a creature casts an emanation or burst spell with the text “centered on you,” treat the creature’s entire space as the spell’s point of origin, and measure the spell’s area or effect from the edge of the creature’s space. For instance, an antimagic field cast by a fire giant would extend 10 feet beyond his space (effectively increasing the emanation’s radius by 5 feet).
Measure from the edge of the creature's space. Notice that reach is not mentioned in there anywhere.
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And a cone "starts from any corner of your square and widens as it goes." If you don't want to apply the rules from emanations, then you are left with that statement and that limitation. Choosing to allow it to emanate from reach is a house rule that is not supported by anything in the books. You are welcome to do that, but it is not the rule presented by the game. So again, as has been the pattern in all of the threads going right now, if you choose to rule that way at your table, you are within your right to do so, and a player should respect that. If you are sitting at someone else's table, and they do not agree with your interpretation (as most here seem not to), then you should also respect their decision.
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Because you are arguing that it is the rule, not that you think it makes sense and would allow it. There's a difference between flavor text and mechanical rules text. If all Feather Step said was that it lets you move faster in difficult terrain, we'd have no idea what it meant by that. That's flavor text. It includes rules text to back it up.
Burning hands has flavor text that says "A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips." It then goes on to give us the rules for what the cone does. Nowhere does it say unlike a normal cone effect, you can begin the cone up to your reach number of squares away. That would be a rule overriding the general rule. A description of what the spell looks like is not a rule that overrides the general rule of how you determine the squares affected by a cone.
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For specific to override general it has to state that it is doing something differently than the general.
What you have is something that modifies touch attacks by modifying your reach.
What you do not have is something that modifies the start of cone spells by changing the intersection rule.
If you believe Long Arm modifies the intersection rule you have to show where it does that, simply modifying the reach of your arms (which have nothing to do with the intersection rule) is not sufficient.
Yes, the spell states it starts at your hand. The spell rules ALSO state that it starts at an intersection next to you. You would have to modify both rules for you to be able to start the cone farther away. Only one got modified, so no change happens.
Of course, you can always houserule it because 'it makes sense to you'.
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Moorningstaar - You described it as flavor text in a previous post, so I thought it fair to assume we were on the same page in that regard.
I think I have to disagree here. That flavor text pretty much states that it comes from your hand. Now obviously this isn't an issue normally because a creature can reach the edge of their square. And while they can reach into a square one space over they cannot reach through it to its opposite edge short of something like the above spell or having a ten foot reach.
In order to be rules text, it needs to reference an actual rule. That sentence does not reference any rules. It does not explain what it means in terms of the rules of the game. Does it mean if you have 5 foot reach, you can have it emanate from a corner of an adjacent square? You say no, but why? Why not? Nothing in reach says you can't reach the corners of the adjacent square. You can reach anything in the adjacent square, and the corners and edges are included in the square. There is nowhere in the square that a creature can get to that you can't reach. So why can't a creature with 5-foot reach have the spell originate at another corner?
Because there is no rules specific language telling us that they can in the description of burning hands. How do you determine where a spell starts? You look at the range and the area. In this case, Area tells us it's a 15' cone shaped burst. How do you determine where that can start? You look at the rules for cones. The rules for cones do not mention reach. It's also a burst. The rules for bursts do not mention reach. The rules for bursts from large creatures also do not mention reach. And the spell description does not mention reach. Reach does not factor into the rules for determining where the spell can originate.
All of the potential rules that people are coming up with are guesses as to how it might work if it were allowed. There is no rules text to support the idea, because there is no rules text there.
Contrast that with Feather Step, which is entirely made up of rules text, and says. "For the duration of this spell, the subject ignores the adverse movement effects of difficult terrain, and can even take 5-foot steps in difficult terrain."
What rules does Feather Step reference? The duration. The subject (target). Movement effects. Difficult Terrain. 5-foot steps.
The spell is called Feather Step, so that must mean you're stepping lightly, right? So you should get to ignore caltrops or won't set off a pressure plate, because you're not putting all of your weight down. That's the kind of leap you're making with burning hands. Caltrops aren't mentioned. You are welcome to rule that it works that way, because it makes sense to you and you think it would be a good adjustment to the game, but that information is not in the spell.
Now compare Feather Step to the Ninja Class Ability Light Steps...
At 6th level, a ninja learns to move while barely touching the surface underneath her. As a full-round action, she can move up to twice her speed, ignoring difficult terrain. While moving in this way, any surface will support her, no matter how much she weighs. This allows her to move across water, lava, or even the thinnest tree branches. She must end her move on a surface that can support her normally. She cannot move across air in this way, nor can she walk up walls or other vertical surfaces. When moving in this way, she does not take damage from surfaces or hazards that react to being touched, such as lava or caltrops, nor does she need to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling on slippery or rough surfaces. Finally, when using light steps, the ninja ignores any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger.
It's a very similar ability, but there are specific differences called out in the rules text. Light Steps is a full-round action, so you can't 5-foot step. Also, Light Steps contains the bolded section, so you do ignore hazards like caltrops or a trap. If Feather Step were meant to grant you those same abilities, then Feather Step would need to state that it grants them. In this case, the flavor text in Light Steps, "a ninja learns to move while barely touching the surface underneath," is not what grants those abilities. It's the rules text that follow.
"Remember when I couldn't Still Spell my Burning Hands into the fight in front of me because my hands were tied behind my back? Well, I've just learned Long Arm..."
All this stuff is supposed to be adjudicated in the moment, adjudications are supposed to be fair, and reference to earlier rulings are valid points. But that's all at one table.
Here in forum we have no history of rulings, so we can only look blinkingly into the future.
Can the hands-tied Sorcerer using Still Spell cast Burning Hands that works as normal? If so, Long Arm does not work. Does Long Arm work with BH? If not, SS+BH with your hands in your pockets, if you want.
I know which world I'd rather GM or play in.
@Pizza Lord
Sure, as part of the casting. But the finale, as you direct the spell somewhere, it should be easy enough to extend your arms.
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Citations for any of that?
EDIT: If you can start with a citation for the developer statement, that would help, since that's the basis for a lot of your interpretation.
Lastly it has been stated by the developers that the rules for this game are inclusive, meaning that unless the rules state you can't do something, you can.
By RAW your long arm doesn't occupy a square, your base is what occupies a square. So, the "it starts from any corner of your square" is only including your base.
As a GM (non PFS) I would probably allow the flavor of this to work though through long limbs, at least until it became abusive in ways I didn't think about.
Coning around a corner? Though I think you can already do that.
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To the OP's topic:
Sake of arguement, If my caster were tiny or smaller, would the cone start in my square? If having longer arms means the cone starts further away, then wouldn't having shorter arms result in it starting closer?
I don't think the caster's melee reach affects area spells. Think if it did, then many of the smaller races would be unable to cast many types of area spells without including themselves in the area.
Reach only applies to attacks. It doesn't apply to spells.
(of course a touch spell has an attack component, and reach applies to that)