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This page from the PRD has a table mapping object size to falling damage. The animate objects spell also mentions object sizes, but it's unclear whether it really refers to the size of the object or the size of the creature the object becomes.
Textwise, is there such a thing as object size? Note that this isn't about the creature size a weapon or armor is designed for--I'd wager that the object size of a sling bullet would be different from the object size of a suit of full plate armor.
This has implications of calamitous import should I go through with my plan to research an anvil chorus bard spell.
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What sized creature was it made for? A pixie anvil is slightly smaller than a storm giants...
For an answer to the object size question, it seems to be how much of a square it takes up. For instance, it gives a "Huge wooden wagon" as an example and I assume that means a wagon that takes up a Huge space.
So that sling bullet, fine [1/2 ft., no damage from falling].
That armor for a creature size for small/medium [5', 2d6 dam].
For a human sized anvil, I'd say it's tiny [2-1/2 ft., 1d6] but add a few d6's do to it being at the top for density/heaviness [think of it as a virtual size bump or the reverse of the "lighter materials" rule in falling objects].
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What sized creature was it made for? A pixie anvil is slightly smaller than a storm giants...
For an answer to the object size question, it seems to be how much of a square it takes up. For instance, it gives a "Huge wooden wagon" as an example and I assume that means a wagon that takes up a Huge space.
So that sling bullet, fine [1/2 ft., no damage from falling].
That armor for a creature size for small/medium [5', 2d6 dam].For a human sized anvil, I'd say it's tiny [2-1/2 ft., 1d6] but add a few d6's do to it being at the top for density/heaviness [think of it as a virtual size bump or the reverse of the "lighter materials" rule in falling objects].
This is a reasonable way to run things, but is there any textual support?
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A blacksmith's anvil is Small at the very least, possibly Medium if you add the usual low pedestal it's placed on.
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A blacksmith's anvil is Small at the very least, possibly Medium if you add the usual low pedestal it's placed on.
That would make it 5' tall [or 2,5' tall and 10' long], which would be quite difficult for a human sized creature to use. Your 'average' anvil is going to fit into a 2.5' cube.
Now, I'd agree it'd be reasonable to have it deal damage as a small/medium sized item as it's at the top of density/heaviness and should do more damage than a generic rock of the same size which seems to be the standard for damage.
This is a reasonable way to run things, but is there any textual support?
For item size, we have the vehicle rules that explain how many spaces vehicle fills [see ultimate combat]. Vehicles use the same general rule as creature spaces except they their squares don't have to conform to the usual shapes but are listed in number of squares filled. The area is what matters.
The reason I bring this up is that the example given in falling is a huge wagon and vehicles use the same general weight/size[area] as creatures. That's my "textual support". The huge wagon that is an example is listed as 10'x20' squares. To me I can't see any other way to figure it out than use the smallest 'creature' space the item will fit in.
PS: the barbarian's hurler ability uses the falling rules and compares the players size to the item used. While it possible they are talking about two different size scales, it would seem odd to me that they'd do that without saying anything.
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This is a reasonable way to run things, but is there any textual support?What sized creature was it made for? A pixie anvil is slightly smaller than a storm giants...
For an answer to the object size question, it seems to be how much of a square it takes up. For instance, it gives a "Huge wooden wagon" as an example and I assume that means a wagon that takes up a Huge space.
So that sling bullet, fine [1/2 ft., no damage from falling].
That armor for a creature size for small/medium [5', 2d6 dam].For a human sized anvil, I'd say it's tiny [2-1/2 ft., 1d6] but add a few d6's do to it being at the top for density/heaviness [think of it as a virtual size bump or the reverse of the "lighter materials" rule in falling objects].
There's a bit on weapons sized for creatures.
A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a onehanded weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
The size of an object is largely up to GM interpretation for any given circumstance. For a medium-sized creature, it would probably be about small size for particularly large anvils and smaller sizes for smaller anvils.
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So far, it sounds like the answer is "apart from a weapon object size guideline, oops, Paizo forgot to say, but here are some ways to interpret it". The guideline at least gives me a starting point.
Thanks!
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For your anvil chorus, you will of course need different sizes of anvils for an acceptable tonal range. I should warn you that tuning an anvil is a difficult and time consuming process.
Kudos on how many people have been drawn into this. ^-^
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Textwise, is there such a thing as object size? Note that this isn't about the creature size a weapon or armor is designed for--I'd wager that the object size of a sling bullet would be different from the object size of a suit of full plate armor.
There is such thing as object size which is different from weapon size, but I don't know where it is defined. I do know that object size affects the AC of unattended objects.
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So far, it sounds like the answer is "apart from a weapon object size guideline, oops, Paizo forgot to say, but here are some ways to interpret it". The guideline at least gives me a starting point.
Thanks!
Eh, I don't really blame them. Adding a size descriptor to every object in the game (literally everything) would add quite a bit of text to the books. It's probably a lot simpler to just pick a size for an object when it matters and then just be consistent with that from then on.
Happy to help though!
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In the real world, there are many types and sizes of anvil. The biggest are forging anvils which can be up to 500 lbs and the smallest are jewelers anvils which can be well under a pound in weight.
This site has specifications of three sizes of anvil, the largest being just over 200 pounts and being 11" x 27" x 5" in dimensions. That is probably fairly close to the physical dimensions of many small creatures (and of course a lot more dense).
All that being said, I certainly wouldn't use falling damage as a base for damage for a spell. Spell damage should be determined by spell level and caster level and be comparable to other spells. You are looking at a different special effect, but other than it being bludgeoning damage I don't think the special effect should use different mechanics (in this case trying to use the falling rules, rather than normal spell damage).
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So far, it sounds like the answer is "apart from a weapon object size guideline, oops, Paizo forgot to say, but here are some ways to interpret it". The guideline at least gives me a starting point.
Thanks!
Eh, I don't really blame them. Adding a size descriptor to every object in the game (literally everything) would add quite a bit of text to the books. It's probably a lot simpler to just pick a size for an object when it matters and then just be consistent with that from then on.
Happy to help though!
Definitely wouldn't expect a size descriptor on every object. Maybe just a table of approximate sizes would be enough. The creature size table isn't quite what I'm looking for as that goes off the creature's space rather than its physical size.
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While objects don't have a 'space' exactly, as far as I can tell the size of an object and the size of a creature are in fact pretty much the same thing. Things around the size of a cat are tiny, things around the size of a person are medium etc. etc. And if those things are animated, they become creatures of the size they are and take up appropriate space.
Of course even for creature physical size is a continuum, not discrete points. A ratfolk is closer in physical dimensions to an elf or a dwarf then they are to a halfling, although being the same size as the latter. Obviously this means it is often going to be a judgement call.
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for the size of an object that list will surely help since it show some item and what size they are, so using that list as a general rule to determine what size are object seem pretty good
That's not bad at all. I can work with "is it bigger than a bread box candelabrum?"