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Versatile Movement gives me a Climb speed of my base speed at level 1.
If you have a climb speed (see page 259), you receive a +8 bonus to Athletics checks to climb and don’t need to attempt Athletics checks to climb except in hazardous circumstances.
If you have a climb speed, you can use move actions to climb slopes, walls, and other steep inclines, and you don’t need to attempt an Athletics check to climb except in hazardous circumstances (see the Athletics skill starting on page 136). You are not flat-footed (see page 276) while climbing. You receive a +8 bonus to all Athletics checks to climb and can always take 10 while climbing, even if distracted or threatened. You can move your full climb speed when you use the move action while climbing, but you cannot run. You can move double your climb speed with a successful Athletics check to climb, but you take a –5 penalty to the check. Creatures without a climb speed use the Athletics skill to climb.
So as long as I'm on an Space Station Wall (25), slightly slippery (2), strong winds (2) = DC 29 I never need to make a check? Even a "take 10" check?
An actual climb speed is a movement mode, like walking or swimming or flying or burrowing. If one has a climb speed, it's a bit like they can walk on walls.
If someone were walking on a surface similar to a space station wall, that was slightly slippery, and there were strong winds, would you require a Balance check to stay walking? If so, you'd probably require an Athletics check to keep climbing.
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As mentioned above, the climb speed means you can walk on walls and roofs just like we walk on concrete.
Do you make players roll an acrobatics check to walk on the road in a windy rain squall?
If not, then there's no reason to do the same for something with a climb speed.
Note there's a difference between a statted "climb speed" and the general rule of speed at which you climb.
Climb speed is the same as fly speed or burrow speed. It is a mode of movement.
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Climbing Master feat grants a climb speed (q.v.).
Just using the Athletics skill to climb is not a climb speed. ;)
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I made a character who could swim up waterfalls at level 6 with similar game options. So what? The guy with the jetpack trumps them all.
Until his battery runs dry at an inopportune moment. Due to the ascension rates, the characters with Climbing Master and Swimming Master will ascend faster than the guy with the jet pack. Even if Jet Pack Boy is a Sky Jockey, that's countered by Fleet. ;)
Until his battery runs dry at an inopportune moment. Due to the ascension rates, the characters with Climbing Master and Swimming Master will ascend faster than the guy with the jet pack. Even if Jet Pack Boy is a Sky Jockey, that's countered by Fleet. ;)
Actually I wouldn't just say faster, its like twice to four times as fast. A character with a climbing speed equal to land speed (say Climbing master) is pretty much the fastest character in the game. A Jet pack can ascend at 15 feet per move action. The Climbing master has the possibility of ascending at 60 feet per move action (assuming 30 feet land speed). Throw in haste or a +30 foot move speed suspension and its 120 feet per move action. Depending on the GM and cheese tolerance, it is better to climb on the floor instead of walk or run.
From the CRB on page 259:
"You can move your full climb speed when you use the move
action while climbing, but you cannot run. You can move double
your climb speed with a successful Athletics check to climb, but
you take a –5 penalty to the check."
At level 5, your minimum bonus is +16 (8 climb speed + 5 ranks + 3 class skill), so 10+16-5 = 21 with a take 10 that you can do even while threatened or distracted. A double move climb is straight up better than running on the ground because you can change directions, climb over obstacles, climb through difficult terrain, and not be flat-footed.
Edit: And to stay on topic, yes you don't need a climb check to climb a space station wall that is slippery with water in 30 MPH winds. Unless you want to double your speed.
Actually virtually all characters with a climb speed would be able to take 10 and succeed on climbing that particular wall even if it wasn't automatic by level 8, with literally no investment other than skill ranks. Actually having 16 strength or an insight bonus would make it true at level 5, the earliest you can take climbing master. Although climbing suckers are an earlier option at level 3 with light armor.
The +8 to climbing checks and ability to take 10 is the strong part. The not needing to roll just means people need to do less mental math most of the time to confirm the take 10 succeeds.
As mentioned above, the climb speed means you can walk on walls and roofs just like we walk on concrete.
Climb speed is the same as fly speed or burrow speed. It is a mode of movement.
That raises a good question, can you walk on ceiling of a room with your climb speed? While I would initially assume yes due to it being a mode of movement, when i read the climb entry on page 259 it sounds like the answer is no:
"Climbing
If you have a climb speed, you can use move
actions to climb slopes, walls, and other steep
inclines, and you don’t need to attempt an Athletics
check to climb except in hazardous circumstances
(see the Athletics skill starting on page 136)."It mentions slopes, walls, and other steep inclines, it does not mention ceilings.
Back on 136 it has ceilings listed as climbable with a climb check dc 30"
"An overhang or a ceiling with handholds only 30 "
So force a check here or allow take 10?
Spider-man gets to take 10, same for other critters I suppose. ;)
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Since ceilings are not mentioned in the climb speed entry specifically , I'm guessing the rules would indicate you need to make a check. Taking ten is probably ok, but during combat that's not possible.
It's an interesting one, because depending in the creature would determine how I'd call it in one of my games. I mean, spiders and ghekos etc can all run along the ceiling no worries at all. Snakes and possums, not so much.
Also, I'm wondering if combat represents difficult conditions?
Since ceilings are not mentioned in the climb speed entry specifically , I'm guessing the rules would indicate you need to make a check. Taking ten is probably ok, but during combat that's not possible.
It's an interesting one, because depending in the creature would determine how I'd call it in one of my games. I mean, spiders and ghekos etc can all run along the ceiling no worries at all. Snakes and possums, not so much.
Also, I'm wondering if combat represents difficult conditions?
I'll point out Spider Climb, Climbing Suckers, and Gravity Boost explicitly call out being able to move along ceilings. That fact, along with the Climb rules on page 259 not listing ceilings tends to make me think that a climb speed in and of itself isn't sufficient for ceilings without appropriate hand holds, and that perhaps a roll is necessary in that case.
In regarding taking 10 however, the climb speed rules on 259 do say:
"You receive a +8 bonus to all Athletics checks to climb and can
always take 10 while climbing, even if distracted or threatened."
I believe the bolded clause means taking 10 on climbing in combat is just fine if you have a climb speed. Making a creature roll in combat to use one of its base movement speeds, just because its combat, seems a bit excessive to me as well.
One thing I didn't see here and I'm not sure if it transferred from PF is that you need both hands free to climb. So while the climber is faster, he isn't shooting or charging.
Depends on how one is climbing I think.
One thing I didn't see here and I'm not sure if it transferred from PF is that you need both hands free to climb. So while the climber is faster, he isn't shooting or charging.
Per the Athletics skill on page 136:
"You need at least two hands to climb, but you can cling to a wall with one hand while you cast a spell, shoot a small arm, or take some other action that takes only one hand."Of course, read as RAW, some animals that can climb in real life (like birds) would be unable to climb using a climb skill since they only have two feet, which seems a bit silly. RAI I think is that you need at least two appropriate limbs to climb.
The Spider climb spell on page 378 explicitly states:
"An affected creature
with four limbs must have three limbs free (not holding
equipment or being used to perform skills and so on) to climb
in this manner. A creature with six limbs needs only four
available."
If you look at the Spider Harness power armor on page 204, it provides a climb speed of 25 feet. It seems to indicate it uses its six arachnid legs, but doesn't actually say anything about hands being free or not.
Gravity Boost, on page 104, explicitly lets you climb with your hands free (and run).
The climbing suckers Biotech augmentation on page 211 is explicitly installed in the feet and not the hands, and requires the feet (not the hands) to be barefoot or have custom clothing. It provides a climb speed of 20 feet, but doesn't say anything about hands. Presumably a person missing two arms would be able to climb with them, as the augmentation would still be there in the their feet, providing the climb speed.
Climbing master says nothing about hands, i.e. "You gain a climb speed equal to your land speed."
One might argue climbing master assumes you are climbing like normal and require hands, but the Spider harness and climbing suckers basically say the same thing about hands (i.e. they are not referenced), but I'm guessing most would assume the harness leaves your arms free while climbing.
Here's another question: If you have multiple climbing speeds from different sources, can you combine the fastest speed with the most beneficial restrictions? If you have climbing suckers and climbing master, do you need to attempt Athletics checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down) while moving at your full land speed?
From what you referenced here both climbing augment and the climbing feat grant a climb speed, although the use of hands varies. I would think Athletics checks whenever necessary would apply to both.
I'd also assume your speed would depend on whether you want your hands free or not. Basically, you climb faster using your hands.
The climbing suckers Biotech augmentation on page 211 is explicitly installed in the feet and not the hands, and requires the feet (not the hands) to be barefoot or have custom clothing. It provides a climb speed of 20 feet, but doesn't say anything about hands. Presumably a person missing two arms would be able to climb with them, as the augmentation would still be there in the their feet, providing the climb speed.
Climbing master says nothing about hands, i.e. "You gain a climb speed equal to your land speed."
One might argue climbing master assumes you are climbing like normal and require hands, but the Spider harness and climbing suckers basically say the same thing about hands (i.e. they are not referenced), but I'm guessing most would assume the harness...