I currently have an AOMF +1 which I found. Could I somehow trade that +1 bonus for say a "Flaming" AOMF?
Secondly if it becomes Flaming, would it apply to all my natural attacks (3+ attacks)? If no, could you recommend a magical effect that would apply to all my natural attacks please?
Thanks all.
AoMF applies to all your natural attacks.
Officially no, you'd need to sell it and buy a new one with flaming.
If you don't have the +1 enhancement bonus on the AoMF, and only have Flaming, will the natural attacks still count as Magic for the purposes of overcoming DR/Magic? I assume the answer is NO. I know the d6 [fire] will bypass DR, as energy effects are unaffected by DR, but will the remaining natural attack damage still be reduced?
How would I determine the cost to flame or frost for example an AOMF?
If you don't have the +1 enhancement bonus on the AoMF, and only have Flaming, will the natural attacks still count as Magic for the purposes of overcoming DR/Magic? I assume the answer is NO. I know the d6 [fire] will bypass DR, as energy effects are unaffected by DR, but will the remaining natural attack damage still be reduced?
You do need the +1 or greater Enhancement Bonus to overcome DR/magic.
Overcoming DR: Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment.
How would I determine the cost to flame or frost for example an AOMF?
Flaming and frost are +1 equivalent.
AoMF has prices depending on how much bonus equivalent it has on it.For just a frost it's the same as a +1 amulet, 4,000gp.
For frost +1 it's the same as a +2 amulet, 16,000gp.
Alternatively, you can craft the Flaming property onto your +1 at a cost of the difference between a +1 and +2 valued AoMF, which would be 7,500gp. You could also pay a crafter to do this for a fee.
That being said, buying a new one is still cheaper.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Secondly if it becomes Flaming, would it apply to all my natural attacks (3+ attacks)? If no, could you recommend a magical effect that would apply to all my natural attacks please?
I'd recommend sticking with the +1 and increasing it. Pluses allow you to hit better, do more damage and bypass DR. Flaming does more damage but it's easily resisted: a simple fire resist 5 blocks 80% of the damage.
Hmm the reason why I would like to put a bonus of flame or frost is for the extra damage boost to 9 of my natural attacks. I am a druid so I could even cast GMF and that would give me +1 to all my natural attacks as well so I wouldn't be losing out on the AOMF +1 bonus. What are your thoughts on that?
How would I determine the cost to flame or frost for example an AOMF?Flaming and frost are +1 equivalent.
AoMF has prices depending on how much bonus equivalent it has on it.
For just a frost it's the same as a +1 amulet, 4,000gp.
For frost +1 it's the same as a +2 amulet, 16,000gp.
Ahh thank you. So I could essentially sell it for 2000gp and have our wizard craft another one for 2000 but instead have it with the flaming property instead of the +1? Our handy wizard has all the crafting feats :)
Hmm the reason why I would like to put a bonus of flame or frost is for the extra damage boost to 9 of my natural attacks. I am a druid so I could even cast GMF and that would give me +1 to all my natural attacks as well so I wouldn't be losing out on the AOMF +1 bonus. What are your thoughts on that?
You seem to have missed the wording of GMF. "This bonus does not allow a natural weapon or unarmed strike to bypass damage reduction aside from magic." That means no bypassing cold iron, silver, adamantine and alignment (good, evil, lawful, chaotic) for DR purposes. Weigh that against damage that is almost totally negated by fire resist 5: A simple 1st level spell negates most of that bonus damage.
If you're high enough to have 9 attacks and cast GMF, I'd expect you to encounter plenty of creatures with resist fire, as it's the most common energy resistance. The pluses may seem less exciting, but they are reliable and always useful.
EDIT: Also look at not having a way to bypass material DR. Is having to take a DR 10/silver enough to make the elemental bonus worth it? Unless you have another way to bypass DR's, getting enchantment bonuses is almost always the best bet.
Hmm the reason why I would like to put a bonus of flame or frost is for the extra damage boost to 9 of my natural attacks. I am a druid so I could even cast GMF and that would give me +1 to all my natural attacks as well so I wouldn't be losing out on the AOMF +1 bonus. What are your thoughts on that?You seem to have missed the wording of GMF. "This bonus does not allow a natural weapon or unarmed strike to bypass damage reduction aside from magic." That means no bypassing cold iron, silver, adamantine and alignment (good, evil, lawful, chaotic) for DR purposes. Weigh that against damage that is almost totally negated by fire resist 5: A simple 1st level spell negates most of that bonus damage.
If you're high enough to have 9 attacks and cast GMF, I'd expect you to encounter plenty of creatures with resist fire, as it's the most common energy resistance. The pluses may seem less exciting, but they are reliable and always useful.
EDIT: Also look at not having a way to bypass material DR. Is having to take a DR 10/silver enough to make the elemental bonus worth it? Unless you have another way to bypass DR's, getting enchantment bonuses is almost always the best bet.
Hmm, would shock be better or frost for that matter? I am a level 6 druid in octopus form. Are there other ways to penetrate DR that are not too expensive?
Hmm, would shock be better or frost for that matter? I am a level 6 druid in octopus form. Are there other ways to penetrate DR that are not too expensive?
Shock is much better, as there are less creatures with resistance.
As to "ways to penetrate DR", plusses are the cheapest and easiest way to penetrate DR for natural attacks. I'm sure there are some other ways but I can't think of any off hand that'll work on tentacles.
Thank you graystone for all your advice very helpful. I'm just unclear on one thing, does the AOMF +1 provide DR penetration (besides magic) and if so how much?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
+1 gets past magic
+3 is silver and cold iron
+4 is adamantine
+5 is alignment; lawful, good, evil, chaotic
Thank you graystone for all your advice very helpful. I'm just unclear on one thing, does the AOMF +1 provide DR penetration (besides magic) and if so how much?
Chess Pwn posted the list.
The pluses ARE expensive but it's worth it, especially if you have a caster with the creation feat so you can pay 1/2. The quickest way a natural attack build can get shut down is DR since it can't do what other 'weapon' builds can do to deal with DR: get weapons of special materials/blanches, two hand for 1 1/2 str and/or get bigger damage weapons.
Myself, if I run a natural weapon build I normally put as much cash as possible towards an AOMF until I at least get a +3 to cover magic, silver and Cold iron [the extra hit/damage is a bonus IMO]. I find adamantine/alignment more... lets say situational, and may not be as important [some campaigns see almost none and some are swimming in them].
PS: and your welcome. ;) Happy to help. I've tried the 'extra d6's' method with natural weapon builds before so I can understand where you're coming from. It's really cool to roll an extra d6 fire, d6 cold and d6 acid on your attacks but then you meet a resolute wererat and you do only a handful of damage after you reduce almost every roll by 5...
Without any spoilers do you have any experience with ROTRL, that's the campaign we are playing through is DR penetration a big theme in this campaign? So far we have dealt with DR 5 and 10 silver and cold iron
Without any spoilers do you have any experience with ROTRL, that's the campaign we are playing through is DR penetration a big theme in this campaign? So far we have dealt with DR 5 and 10 silver and cold iron
Hmmm... it's been a LONG while since i played that one. As I recall most of the interesting fights involved DR's[often multiple] and resist/immunity to some energy types. That and some incorporeal undead. I THINK the animal companion did ok on the scrub fights but then it wasn't a normal companion: Ashvawg Tamer went through a few like a bulette, behir, winter wolf and I think there was a minotaur for a little bit. heck, he started off with a krenshar that was awesome until he gained a few levels and got a better animal.
Shock is much better, as there are less creatures with resistance.
Depends a bit on the campaign. If running an AP, it would be a terrible choice in Wrath of the Righteous (demons are flat out immune) or for Savage Tide (same reason). Campaigns heavily featuring demons are about as good a fit for a shocking enchantment as City of Brass campaigns for flaming and arctic campaigns for frost... which is to say, not good.
Consider consulting with your GM.
Also Greater Magic Fang only applies to one natural attack if you want a bonus higher than +1.
Also one thing natural attack build tend to suffer from is accuracy so the +1 is going to be very helpful to you as it will give each of your attacks 5% more chance to hit.
Depends a bit on the campaign. If running an AP, it would be a terrible choice in Wrath of the Righteous (demons are flat out immune) or for Savage Tide (same reason).
Compared to fire? Baby demons ignore both and non-devils are more likely to take electricity: electricity is a better pick. Of course I wouldn't say it was a GOOD choice; I suggest keeping the plus instead of an elemental d6. It's a rare game where fire would ever be a better option, like a vs frost giant game.
To be honest, if a game features an overwhelming amount of resistant creatures I'd expect the DM to at least hint that enchants like flaming are worthless. My suggestion was for an average game: Now that I found out that it's a ROTRL game, I'd really push pluses over any energy d6. I recall a LOT of energy resistant/immune
Also one thing natural attack build tend to suffer from is accuracy so the +1 is going to be very helpful to you as it will give each of your attacks 5% more chance to hit.
They do? I've never found that to be true. Since you don't have to worry about the less accurate extra attacks from high BAB, you've multiple attacks with either full BAB attacks or -2 for secondary [if you've got secondary, why wouldn't you have multiattack]. For me hitting was the easy part. It was dealing with DR's that was the only issue.
I definitely enjoy the +1 I think I am not making myself clear my apologies. I have a +1 AOMF currently and I am a druid. We have a crafter in our group so what I am thinking is since I only have 3k gold right now I do not have enough to upgrade the +1 to a +2 but what I could do for a level or two is turn the +1 AOMF into elemental damage and cast the +1 GMF on myself for 6hr duration. With this I am losing out on nothing. Then once we do have enough gold I could resell the amulet and craft a +2 one, no money is lost due to crafting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Atalius: If you can guarantee you'll have the time to switch over the amulet when you get the cash, that's an option. If you're really going the enchant route, here are some to think about:
Mimetic: each time you hit a resistant/immune creature, you pick up resist 10[max 30] to one energy. With your number of attacks, you'll quickly get 30 in every resist/immunity they have.
Fortuitous: extra AoO and 1/round can make 2 on 1 foe.
Smashing; +2d6 on inanimate objects. 9 attacks with this should sunder most anything
Shock/corrosive: These are your best bet for dealing damage, as they are generally less likely to be resisted.
Sharding: This is a +2 enchantment but it's one of the few that I would actually take instead of the enchantment bonuses. Making all your attacks ranged attacks is all kinds of awesome.
If I used the elemental AOMF quality would it apply to constriction damage also?