channel negative energy and inflict spells force will saves.
EDIT: and illusions
Oh, it gets even more obnoxious when you start running into poisons or creature abilities that force Will saves, but then make them based off of Cha or some other stat, rather than Wisdom.
Though, the vast majority of Will saves a character will absolutely not want to fail are going to be the Enchantment(charm) and Enchantment(compulsion) types. Nobody wants their character Dominated, Confused, or otherwise no longer under the player's control.
Can you give an example of a time when a will save is forced to be based on another stat? I have never heard of or seen that!
Curses are also Will Saves as well as effects from Plane Shift, and the always fun Prismatic Spells.
Those ones aren't Mind Affecting though which makes them super spooky.
At the very low levels it's not such a problem from about 5+ it becomes a fairly big deal as the risk of your murdering your friends or standing their like a potato starts to go up
Can you give an example of a time when a will save is forced to be based on another stat? I have never heard of or seen that!Oh, it gets even more obnoxious when you start running into poisons or creature abilities that force Will saves, but then make them based off of Cha or some other stat, rather than Wisdom.
Though, the vast majority of Will saves a character will absolutely not want to fail are going to be the Enchantment(charm) and Enchantment(compulsion) types. Nobody wants their character Dominated, Confused, or otherwise no longer under the player's control.
I think he's talking about monsters having abilities whose save DCs are calculated off of other stats. I'm not aware of anything anywhere that expects a saving throw calculated not using Wisdom.
It sounds like having low will can be extremely deadly
The joke is that failed Fortitude and Reflex saves lead to a dead character, but a failed Will save leads to dead party members. And indeed, I've been in a party member where an enemy Dominated a min-maxed party member and told him to kill the party. That was seriously scary. He was so well-built we couldn't really restrain him, while on the other hand h3e could easily oneshot a party member in a single round.
Point is, I always try to boost Will saves because they're way more important than the other saves. Taking full damage from a Fireball is nasty, and getting poisoned sucks, but failing to resist a Dominate is a liability to the rest of the party.
I think he's talking about monsters having abilities whose save DCs are calculated off of other stats. I'm not aware of anything anywhere that expects a saving throw calculated not using Wisdom.Can you give an example of a time when a will save is forced to be based on another stat? I have never heard of or seen that!Oh, it gets even more obnoxious when you start running into poisons or creature abilities that force Will saves, but then make them based off of Cha or some other stat, rather than Wisdom.
Though, the vast majority of Will saves a character will absolutely not want to fail are going to be the Enchantment(charm) and Enchantment(compulsion) types. Nobody wants their character Dominated, Confused, or otherwise no longer under the player's control.
The closest thing I can think of is Opposed Charisma checks for Charm spells and Possession; so you're probably right.
A good guideline is that if a save is absolutely devastating to the party for you to fail, it is probably a will save.
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It sounds like having low will can be extremely deadly
Fortitude saves: typically if you fail these, you get hurt. Maybe it's ability score damage, maybe it's hitpoints, maybe it's paralysis, and maybe it even kills you.
Reflex saves: typically if you fail these, you get hurt. Usually it's hitpoints.
Will saves: typically if you fail these, your effectiveness is compromised. Maybe you go insane and attack your friends, maybe you'll give away your favorite possession, maybe you'll give up your most important secret. Basically, death is the best scenario with Will saves much of the time.
I think he's talking about monsters having abilities whose save DCs are calculated off of other stats. I'm not aware of anything anywhere that expects a saving throw calculated not using Wisdom.Can you give an example of a time when a will save is forced to be based on another stat? I have never heard of or seen that!Oh, it gets even more obnoxious when you start running into poisons or creature abilities that force Will saves, but then make them based off of Cha or some other stat, rather than Wisdom.
Though, the vast majority of Will saves a character will absolutely not want to fail are going to be the Enchantment(charm) and Enchantment(compulsion) types. Nobody wants their character Dominated, Confused, or otherwise no longer under the player's control.
Yup, I'm talking specifically about creature abilities, usually Supernatural in type, that require a save (Fort, Reflex, or Will) that specify that the save is made off of a different stat than it normally is. Here's a quick example of one that I knew that used a Cha based Will save:
The operative part of the ability description is "the save dc is (some stat) based." The save DC is the number the target needs to get to make the save. This is telling you which stat of the attacker is used to establish the DC, it is not telling you which stat modifier to defender uses to modify their saving throw. All wizard spells have their save DC based on intelligence (the caster's) but if a fireball is cast on my character (reflex save) my roll is modified by dex, like reflex saves are.