So my first character recently went going mythic. I read over the rules and made my decisions as to how I want it to progress. My magus went Champion and choose to have followers. When I hit 3rd tier, I will be taking the universal ability that lets me grant clerics of my character domains. So I will have a 1st level high priest. Maybe 2nd level, we'll see.
That's the route I want to go, a living god.
But I am left wondering if that is typical. Do others go the "living god" route or am I weird because it does not grant as much of a combat bonus as much of a story bonus.
What do you do with your mythic character?
I make a lot of mythic characters so their is a fair amount of variance. I always pick up mythic spell casting for spell casters so they can have some famously powerful spells.
Other than that my most consistent thing is longevity, it feels like if you're mythic picking up immortality is kinda an obvious choice. Being mythic it becomes very hard to be killed but you can still die.
Other than that I do go more combat if their are choices that fit my chosen combat style otherwise I go for pretty options for some characters to make them seem kewl and asthetic. Flowers in your footsteps is a good example.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So my first character recently went going mythic. I read over the rules and made my decisions as to how I want it to progress. My magus went Champion and choose to have followers. When I hit 3rd tier, I will be taking the universal ability that lets me grant clerics of my character domains. So I will have a 1st level high priest. Maybe 2nd level, we'll see.
That's the route I want to go, a living god.
But I am left wondering if that is typical. Do others go the "living god" route or am I weird because it does not grant as much of a combat bonus as much of a story bonus.
What do you do with your mythic character?
My first mythic character did end up going this route. In-character it was unintentional. He had Leadership because we had a party of three PCs, and his faerie dragon cohort was helpful for the primary fighter. He primarily acted as the face, and redeemed [place]. So followers were kind of a thing. It only made sense that some idiot would start worshiping him, and hey, wouldn't it be funny if he started granting (some of) them spells?
Of course, at high-level it ended up giving him a daily spell-like ability use of wish. SLAs don't require material components. So... yeah.
By that point we were literally taking control over layers of the Abyss, so it pretty much made sense. (One layer has been converted to what is referenced as the Elemental Plane of Kittens, and the other is now a maze of marshmallow.) Shrug.
Say what you will about mythic, it sure as heck opens up legendary stories.
I ended up going this route with one of my WoTR characters, though I didn't plan to initially.
WoTR spoiler:
His cohort was his high priestess. In addition to the neat SLAs he got, she was pretty useful in combat. (By the time the campaign ended, she was a 7th level oracle/10th level exalted.)
It did make for a really interesting story.
Hobgoblin Paladin 12/Trickster 5. Crit build with Falchion, doing loads of damage, dodging most damage, and being very mobile.
Mythic's pretty broken. XD
Before that he was a Cleric 10/Hierophant 4. Honestly, I think that mythic is much nicer to casters at low levels, and much nicer to martials at mid and high levels. A caster can still optimize the s#*# out of it, but generally speaking... the abilities let you cast with way more versatility, but don't allow you to cast much more potently (doesn't scale as much as enemies' mythic defenses), and doesn't allow you to cast more rapidly. A lvl 11 martial can move, do a full round attack, and then cleave a bunch of dudes for 1 mythic point, all in the same turn. A lvl 11 caster can move twice and cast 1 spell... also for 1 mythic point. Also, if he uses one of most mythic abilities, which are almost all swifts or immediate, he can't even cast a quickened spell.
I was greatly underwhelmed.
I don't know about not boosting spell casting.
Let's look at a perfect spell build, for arguments sake the character has say 30 in their casting stat, spell focus and greater spell focus
Before spell level their DC is 24
Let's make it mythic, now their casting stat is 42, they take mythic spell focus that's a +10 to their DC. They take channel power and that's essentially a +12/14 to their spell DC and spell resistance no longer matters at all. DC 36 before spell level is pretty scary, and a ruthlessly optimised one could be closer to 39. Lol.
That's before considering that if they are a blaster build that's an extra 50% damage boost, which is insane and their is the boost certain spells got with mythic spells.
It's not as intuitive as taking Mythic PA, vital strike, foe biter and being done, but it can be done.
I've always found that it helps to have some kind of theme for your character as you develop their mythic growth. Don't just try to make their numbers bigger in whatever their core role is - give them an identity to go with it.
@Goblin: ...Did you use the errata changing Wild Arcana and Inspired Spell to Standard Actions?
Yes, as standard actions. So for my cleric it was mostly a "increase CL" for summon monster I at low levels as well as a "don't run out of spells" ability, and gradually became more and more of a "I can spontaneously cast whatever I need". I really loved it at very low levels. Then at level 5-8 I started remembering how underwhelming the cleric spell list was for non-buffs, and by level 10 the only worthwhile stuff to cast was buffs. Sure, mythic prayer and mythic blessings of fervor are *strong*, but you still aren't doing much more. It could be argued that it's like casting them twice per shot... but I wouldn't really agree. Even if you consider mythic prayer as being the equivalent of casting prayer twice in one round, stacking, you still get the equivalent of two standards and one move, with 2 mythic points, while a martial at lvl 11 gets a move, 3 attacks, and an extra cleave/vital strike for just 1.
I don't know about not boosting spell casting.
Let's look at a perfect spell build, for arguments sake the character has say 30 in their casting stat, spell focus and greater spell focus
Before spell level their DC is 24Let's make it mythic, now their casting stat is 42, they take mythic spell focus that's a +10 to their DC. They take channel power and that's essentially a +12/14 to their spell DC and spell resistance no longer matters at all. DC 36 before spell level is pretty scary, and a ruthlessly optimised one could be closer to 39. Lol.
That's before considering that if they are a blaster build that's an extra 50% damage boost, which is insane and their is the boost certain spells got with mythic spells.
It's not as intuitive as taking Mythic PA, vital strike, foe biter and being done, but it can be done.
Casters totally get some stuff to make their spells either more potent or harder to resist. But overall, he can only really invest is making some aspects of his spells better, while mythic defenses will *all* scale by as much, or about. For example, you can focus to be really great at defeating SR, but if the target has great saves, won't help. If you buff the DCs, SR could beat you. If you buff the SR and DC, but the enemy simply got immunity to your effect, still no better off. SR, saves, immunities, resistances, HP, and a bunch of spells and abilities will be able to negate or undo your effect. And while you are trying to max you capacity to penetrate enemies' defenses, you get barely any opportunity to increase your own defenses.
Of course, a mythic wizard can be vastly more powerful than an equal leveled or even higher leveled wizard. But as the encounter DCs scale to match the PCs power, I find casters get the shorter end of the stick. My friend told me of a chain lighting focused mythic build that was apparently breaking their game. But the rest of the PCs in that game may not be nearly as optimized.
Our game banned mythic vital strike, split mythic power attack into two mythic feats, and I have no idea what foe biter is, and many other martial mythic powers were seriously nerfed, and I still feel way more potent with my new martial build than I did with my caster build.
So casters aren't powerful at high-mythic levels?
All I can say is "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Shave its back with a +6 Rusty Razor,
shave its back with a +6 Rusty Razor,
shave its back with a +6 Rusty Razor,
earl-aye in the mor-ning!
What do you do with a mythic character,
what do you do with a mythic character,
what do you do with a mythic character,
earl-aye in the mor-ning???
Power up 'n punch Cthulhu,
power up 'n punch Cthulhu,
power up 'n punch Cthulhu,
earl-aye in the mor-ning!!!
What do you do with a mythic character,
what do you do with a mythic character...*goes on smoking scrimshaw pipe and playing accordion*
Casters totally get some stuff to make their spells either more potent or harder to resist. But overall, he can only really invest is making some aspects of his spells better, while mythic defenses will *all* scale by as much, or about. For example, you can focus to be really great at defeating SR, but if the target has great saves, won't help. If you buff the DCs, SR could beat you. If you buff the SR and DC, but the enemy simply got immunity to your effect, still no better off. SR, saves, immunities, resistances, HP, and a bunch of spells and abilities will be able to negate or undo your effect. And while you are trying to max you capacity to penetrate enemies' defenses, you get barely any opportunity to increase your own defenses.
See what you're saying isn't really true at all for one thing SR is trivially easy to overcome for Mythic casters mythic spell pen adds half your tier to spell pen, if you have greater in your none mythic feats it adds your full tier. Most dedicated casters will have this already so thats one mythic feat for +14 to spell Pen. With perfect spell thats +28 to spell pen....
or just take Channel power and ignore SR entirely. Resistances are again not a problem Energy conversion is an archmage mythic path ability that lets you change your element when you cast, available from mythic path 1. DCs are easily pumped up with mythic Spell focus as I have already shown.
Shown with the investment of 4 mythic paths, and 2 mythic feats (of which there are very few attractive options for casters anyway). Elemental resistances, saves and spell resistances are all overcome. that leaves 6 path abilities and 3 feats for defense. I wouldn't call that over investment to make your spells work on pretty much anything short of things flat immune to their specific effect.
Of course, a mythic wizard can be vastly more powerful than an equal leveled or even higher leveled wizard. But as the encounter DCs scale to match the PCs power, I find casters get the shorter end of the stick. My friend told me of a chain lighting focused mythic build that was apparently breaking their game. But the rest of the PCs in that game may not be nearly as optimized.Our game banned mythic vital strike, split mythic power attack into two mythic feats, and I have no idea what foe biter is, and many other martial mythic powers were seriously nerfed, and I still feel way more potent with my new martial build than I did with my caster build.
Wouldn't surprise me I have a Mythic Sorc build that does over 1200 damage per round to 20 targets with a of DC 45/47 using chain lightning. Off the top of my head I can think of a DC 50/52 Dominate monster build and a DC 48/50 mass suffocate (Which would pretty much kill everything in the game that breathes without fail). So yeah mythic casters can be strong just not as simply.
Foe biter is a legendary weapon property, spend one Power point or whatever its called and double the damage your attack deals.
Mythic is just super easy for martials to brake, I use it for more corner case martial builds that are hard to make work in the base game mostly.
Don't worry I've never played him and never would unless it was some horrible death you will die game :) I just make a lot of characters. I've also made a mythic trickster 10 snakebite bralwer/devoted muse who fights with a war fan. Some builds are stronger than others xD
Saves well he has 20 Cha from 18+Gnome, 4 from levelling, 4 from wish, 6 from belt, 10 from mythic levelling up. So 44 CHA if you go all in it can be 48 but I did other things with the level bonus and did one to spend a mythic path ability on a further +2 to Charisma. The spell is his perfect spell and he has spell focus and greater spell focus +2, elemental spell +1 for electric spells and mythic spell focus +2, all these are bonuses from feats so doubled for perfect spell, making it +10. The spell is level six so the DC is
10+17+10+6 = 44.
Channel power forces a -2 to the saves of mythic creatures targeted by a channel power boosted spell, -4 to none mythic, for ease of simple expression in conversation it's easier just to say DC46/48.
If you go all in on Cha and go old age you can have 50 so then the Dc is 49/51 lol.
Foe Biter is an ability for Legendary Items. Basically, it lets you double your damage (at a cost that most such items can let their user pay a fair few times per day). It is, of course, particularly potent when combined with Mythic Power Attack and Mythic Vital Strike.
Side note: Those who want a different mythic feel for their character may want to check this page.
Oh, you guys mean Foe-Biting. Precise wording is important for searches. :P Interesting, I hadn't looked much into legendary items. Need to pick that ability twice to get Foe-Biting, though, as it needs to be an artifact.
So casters aren't powerful at high-mythic levels?
All I can say is "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
Yea... you need a very special GM to rule it that way. I didn't read it up anew, but from what I remember, that wasn't legit.
Stuff
I'll assume 1200 damage per target, right? Because otherwise that's kind of pathetic, being a meagre 60 damage average.
Still, that allows for a save for SR, a save for half, and... evasion, including improved evasion. Sure, you can spend mythic points to overcome SR, and to buff the DC, and to change elements to bypass all of the elemental immunities or resistences, but then you are burning through a lot of mythic points per round. And there's still evasion, which afaik, is not blocked. A ring of evasion is fairly affordable and worthwhile at high levels, and many classes get at least evasion, if not improved evasion. And to back to SR for a moment, you are talking about Spell Perfection when you say Perfect Spell? That's great for a one-trick pony, but even then, SR requires a CL check. +28 may not be enough if you roll a 1, assuming that the foes are properly scaled to the party's power level.
Of course, mythic makes casters much more powerful. But I feel that, in general, mythic removes and inverses the martial-caster divide at higher levels as far as combat is concerned.
Your experience may differ. I expect it to vary greatly per table, as per GM styles. With the main GM at our table, I know that the more we level up, the more you better be a super cheesed up min-maxed character if you want your caster to be pertinent, because HP and AC are the simplest and easiest defenses to overcome (and scale equally fast or even slower than an optimized martial's attack and damage), while saves scale faster than DCs without even considering the growing number of protective layers the monsters and NPCs get against various magic.
Obviously it's per target, would anyone would be proud of 60 single target damage? Let's not be patronising.
The DC 44 and since you're using channel power for the damage boost, enemies have a -2/4 to their saves, or to put it another way, Cthulhu saves on a 17 or to put it yet another way things making your save is extremely unlikely even at the highest Cr and even if they make their save and most things in the game die on a successful save anyway.
I honestly think you can count the number of things that have evasion and make that Dc on lower than a 20 on your fingers. Although I don't have best 6 so who knows. Also if things are covered in magic items you always open with mages disjunction, that's pretty basic at the power level we are talking about, I would carry a quicken rod just for swift mages disjunction.
Well due to boosted caster levels the character I'm talking about actually had a +57 to pass sr with chain lightning and a +34 with other spells, so he passes against the highest Sr I'm aware of in the game on a 1 and a 7 respectively. But like I said he uses channel power for the massive 50% damage so SR doesn't matter.
Look you're saying it again, saves simply do not scale faster than Dc IF you invest in Dc which casters have to do in none mythic just as much as they do in mythic, in fact more, I can easily spend feats boosting my Dc in none mythic where as in mythic I spend 1.
Which is just the same as Hp not outacaling damage IF you invest in damage, if you don't it will outscale.
Does anything else scale as much as this, though? Because from the forums and my friends' experiences, Chain Lightning seems to be the only spell that really goes into the broken territory with mythic. Which I guess can't really be ignored, but still goes down to a single spell. Then there's also Spell Immunity (Greater, for example), but I concede that the GM is being pretty cheesy if all of the enemies have that prepared/cast ahead of time.
Mage's disjuction... I used that once a few years ago. After recalculating the NPC's stats for 30 minutes, it was decided that this spell would be banned thereon forth. XD
Nothing else really competes on an AOE scale but Battering Blast does WAY MORE single target damage and doesn't even allow a save. Does allow an attack role though, normally you'll be hitting on two but I've seen a build for battering blast that roles 14 attacks so decent chance of missing.
although... Battering blast doesn't have a mythic iteration so that may not be true. If your DM allows your to homebrew a mythic battering blast based on how mythic scorching ray works then I imagine it would win out.
But yeah force and no save so Battering blast is fairly nasty.
Thats direct damage though, suffocate and Mass suffocate can kill anything that breathes, and I can see a Dominate monster DC 51 ...which is fairly nasty. If things are going round will spell immunity (or the quite a lot scarier spell turning) you need to be opening with quickened Mages Disjunction to strip away their defenses.
If my DM insisted that every monster had prebuffed with spell immunity/spell turning/contingencies and then told me Mages Disjunction was banned I'd call b#$*#!$@, then again like I said, I'd never play this character its a jerk move xD.
Blood Havok, Blood Intensity, Draconic/Ork Bloodline, Quicken Spell, Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, Beads of Karma, Orange Prism Ioun Stone.
There is quite a lot one can do to boost a spells damage beyond the obvious. I've done the full build on these boards before I don't care to type it out again but you should be able to put something close together with that stuff.
I went Cleric 5/Hellknight Signifer 10/Holy Vindicator 5/ Mythic Heirophant, and focused on Divine Source and Legendary Item (my Hellknight plate), each bolstered by Mythic Paragon (being treated as two tiers higher for Divine Source is wonderful.)
How often do you get to play a character that creates a major artifact and ascends to demigod status of their own will?
How often do you get to play a character that creates a major artifact and ascends to demigod status of their own will?
That's my thought. Except, I'm focusing on just the demigod part.
The other interesting thing you can do with mythic is make a super powerful demigod level being and then make it so no-one knows who you, are open a tavern be a normal person, turn someone inside out with your pinky when they mug you.
Fun fun fun xD
Mostly I use Unlimited Range and Uncanny Grapple to throw people into orbit.
So my first character recently went going mythic. I read over the rules and made my decisions as to how I want it to progress. My magus went Champion and choose to have followers. When I hit 3rd tier, I will be taking the universal ability that lets me grant clerics of my character domains. So I will have a 1st level high priest. Maybe 2nd level, we'll see.
That's the route I want to go, a living god.
But I am left wondering if that is typical. Do others go the "living god" route or am I weird because it does not grant as much of a combat bonus as much of a story bonus.
What do you do with your mythic character?
One of my players is going the "living god" route. At Mythic Tier 5, I think, he started calling himself a saint and helping the poor and downtrodden in the poorest part of the city. In my homebrew setting, the average NPC of any class rarely goes past 5th level, making super characters very rare. He's now 16th level and has a following. One of his Mythic powers gives him the ability to grant spells to followers, so he even has a couple of clerics who preach about him on the streets.