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Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
If I cast chill touch (or some other touch spell that allows multiple charges) in conjunction with spellstrike and spell combat, and have three attacks from a high base attack bonus, do each of my four attacks benefit from chill touch? Or only one attack in my full attack each round?
How does the magus class features interact with the above Touch Spells FAQ?
i think it should same as if you were making the touches with a natural attack or unarmed attack. Though that still leads to the question of why it takes more time to touch you than to hit you.
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This FAQ says yes, you may use the spell on all of your weapon attacks, until you run out of charges.
Yes. For example, if you cast chill touch (which allows multiple touch attacks), you could use spellstrike to cast and deliver the spell through your weapon, and in later weapon attacks you could use your weapon to deliver the remaining spell touch attacks (one spell touch attack per weapon attack).If you have multiple attacks per round with that weapon (such as from having a BAB of +6 or higher), you can use the weapon to deliver multiple spell touch attacks per round, so long as you have uses of that spell touch attack remaining.
For example, if you are an 8th-level magus (BAB +6/+1) and you cast chill touch, you have up to 8 uses of that spell touch attack. If you make two weapon attacks in a round, you can deliver two spell touch attacks per round (one for each successful weapon attack).
Yes, Spellstrike is a specific rule that overrules the general rule established by the FAQ. I believe that it is now the only way to accomplish this which makes options like Blade Adept Arcanist, VMC Magus, Phantom Blade Spiritualist, and most Magus archetypes a bit more valuable than before.
Thanks!
You could always deliver multiple touch attacks per round via unarmed strike. The FAQ just clarifies that making a touch vs touch AC is a standard action, which it always has been afaik.
Even though the FAQ specifically mentions unarmed strikes, the actual answer only addresses touches, so it only applies to touches.
Hmm. I see your point. So despite the FAQ a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple could deliver three charges through a full attack with claws and bite because they weren't resolved as touch attacks.
WOW! That touch FAQ really messes up my idea for a chill touch rogue dropping sneak attack negative damage. Never got a chance to play it.
So if I'm making unarmed attacks with a touch spell, foregoing the touch attacks, and I don't have improved unarmed strike, do I provoke attacks of opportunity?
Untrained unarmed strikes provoke, but touch spells normally don't. Does the latter assume I'm making a touch attack? Does giving up the touch attacks once again expose me to attacks of opportunity?
WOW! That touch FAQ really messes up my idea for a chill touch rogue dropping sneak attack negative damage. Never got a chance to play it.
You can still do it if you're willing to give up the touch attack and make regular attacks.
So if I'm making unarmed attacks with a touch spell, foregoing the touch attacks, and I don't have improved unarmed strike, do I provoke attacks of opportunity?
Untrained unarmed strikes provoke, but touch spells normally don't. Does the latter assume I'm making a touch attack? Does giving up the touch attacks once again expose me to attacks of opportunity?
While that is an odd situation I would on a gut reaction say yes since your now attacking in a way that leaves you open to attack. Gonna do some reading on it.
Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can’t take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character’s unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character’s unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as shed light (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
Re-looking and based on the bold i would say it actual wouldn't and not only that would qualify your to make an AoE with it while your were holding the charge.
You're delivering a spell, but not a touch attack. Hmm.
Just based on my reading i'm implying that delivering the spell through any means makes that means armed.
Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack.
Good catch I missed that in my search so that answers the question
yeah, the non-provoking is the deliver touch spell standard action. doing an US that also delivers the spell still provokes as shown.
Oh wow. I didn't realize that was so clearly spelled out.
Cool. :D
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You could always deliver multiple touch attacks per round via unarmed strike. The FAQ just clarifies that making a touch vs touch AC is a standard action, which it always has been afaik.
Even though the FAQ specifically mentions unarmed strikes, the actual answer only addresses touches, so it only applies to touches.
Not exactly. You can deliver the spell effect multiple time, if it has multiple uses, via unarmed strike, but if you deliver it as a a touch attack instead of a normal combat attack you can deliver it only once.
And that is what the FAQ cited by Rav in his first post say.
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So if I'm making unarmed attacks with a touch spell, foregoing the touch attacks, and I don't have improved unarmed strike, do I provoke attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you are attacking with the hand, not with the spell.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
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Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
If I cast chill touch (or some other touch spell that allows multiple charges) in conjunction with spellstrike and spell combat, and have three attacks from a high base attack bonus, do each of my four attacks benefit from chill touch? Or only one attack in my full attack each round?
How does the magus class features interact with the above Touch Spells FAQ?
Just to chime in here. A magus can still use Spellstrike with the unspent charges. There is no extra attack doing so beyond using Spell Combat in the first round to cast the spell before holding the charge for the extra hits. (as the FAQ says, no full attack)
I believe it has always been the case that one would only get one extra attack from Spell Combat, but Spellstrike can be used for as long as the character has a spell effect to discharge, including using iteraves to do so.
Spells like Chill Touch have a duration that go beyond hit of the spell, so the discharge would be one of the multple hits that the caster has, and can still be held for the rest of the spell effects afterward. This FAQ should not change this, as it is likely referring to spells such as Shocking Grasp.
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Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
If I cast chill touch (or some other touch spell that allows multiple charges) in conjunction with spellstrike and spell combat, and have three attacks from a high base attack bonus, do each of my four attacks benefit from chill touch? Or only one attack in my full attack each round?
How does the magus class features interact with the above Touch Spells FAQ?
Just to chime in here. A magus can still use Spellstrike with the unspent charges. There is no extra attack doing so beyond using Spell Combat in the first round to cast the spell before holding the charge for the extra hits. (as the FAQ says, no full attack)
I believe it has always been the case that one would only get one extra attack from Spell Combat, but Spellstrike can be used for as long as the character has a spell effect to discharge, including using iteraves to do so.
Spells like Chill Touch have a duration that go beyond hit of the spell, so the discharge would be one of the multple hits that the caster has, and can still be held for the rest of the spell effects afterward. This FAQ should not change this, as it is likely referring to spells such as Shocking Grasp.
Just to be clear, Rav question has already got his answer in the FAQs:
Magus, Spellstrike: If I cast a spell that allows multiple touch attacks, can I deliver all of those spell touches through my weapon?Yes. For example, if you cast chill touch (which allows multiple touch attacks), you could use spellstrike to cast and deliver the spell through your weapon, and in later weapon attacks you could use your weapon to deliver the remaining spell touch attacks (one spell touch attack per weapon attack).
If you have multiple attacks per round with that weapon (such as from having a BAB of +6 or higher), you can use the weapon to deliver multiple spell touch attacks per round, so long as you have uses of that spell touch attack remaining.
For example, if you are an 8th-level magus (BAB +6/+1) and you cast chill touch, you have up to 8 uses of that spell touch attack. If you make two weapon attacks in a round, you can deliver two spell touch attacks per round (one for each successful weapon attack).
posted September 2013
I get the impression that people are overlooking part of the recent FAQ:
Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
The FAQ applies to making a touch attack against touch armor class, not to making a standard attack with a weapon (if you have spellstrike) or with a natural weapon or unarmed attack, against standard AC.
Touch attacks against touch AC are limited to 1/round, not physical attacks against standard AC that deliver a held charge.
Which is why the Paizo gods gave us accurate strike.
I know. That was my point. This is, after all, a thread about a specific class (magus) and a specific ability (spellstrike), to which I responded regarding a specific rule (accurate strike) that resolves the "problem" with more than 1 touch attack per round.
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I know. That was my point. This is, after all, a thread about a specific class (magus) and a specific ability (spellstrike), to which I responded regarding a specific rule (accurate strike) that resolves the "problem" with more than 1 touch attack per round.
It don't resolve anything about touch attacks.
It give a way to make standard attacks into touch attacks while maintaining the ability to make multiple attacks. But that work only if you have the ability and pay its activation cost.Rav specific question was answered in the 4th post.