Half-Elf Alternative Favored Class bonuses


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

1)I've previously been told that a Half elf can choose their favored class bonus from Half-Elf, Elf & Human.
What then if your Half-Elf have taken the alternative racial trait "Drow-Heritage" it doesn't say that the drow blood replaces the Elf blood so would this mean that the Half Elf could pick thier favored class bonus from "Drow,Elf,Human & Half-Elf" ?

2) Could "Drow-Heritage" be taken along with "Dragon Soul"? and then choose to count as "Drow,Human, Dragon" or "Drow,Elf, Dragon" ?


"Elf: Drow are humanoids with the elf subtype."
"If a humanoid has a racial subtype, it is considered a member of that race in the case of race prerequisites."

Drow can pick elf options just like a 1/2 elf does. As such, adding drow to the mix doesn't affect anything with your 1/2 elf: it's a pure addition not taking anything away.

As to dragon soul, I'm not sure. It replaces elf blood but the ability doesn't actually DO anything as having the subtypes gives you everything the ability does. Dragon soul should really remove elf subtype to do what it does.

I'd be inclined to say you'd still count as drow as you still would still count as 1/2 elf with dragon soul. However, you wouldn't count as dragon as you "count as dragons for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type": that means you're a dragon ONLY for things targeting you but not for prerequisites.

Scarab Sages

True spotted the part of only counting as a dragon for bane purpose and the like.
For flavor I kinda would like to take both of these options, but seeing as I'm planing to polimorph into a dragon quite often I am considering that it would be better to count as a Half-Elf than a dragon for the time i'm in that shape.
However having the option of getting rid of human bane and by not being human being more likely to befriend a certain neutral dragon, that said character wish to know better and possibly get as a future teacher.


When a half elf gains a level in its multitalented classes, can it choose to gain an alternate favored class bonus or does it always have to choose between a hit point or a skill point?


Quote:
Multitalented: Half-elves choose two favored classes at first level and gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point whenever they take a level in either one of those classes.
Quote:
As in the previous section, what is presented here is a set of alternative benefits that characters of each race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.

So, yes, half elves may choose the alternate favored class bonus for both of their favored classes. And if you wanted to be really strict, "and gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point". That "and" is an inclusive word, so technically half elves can choose an extra hit point or skill point and still have the bonuses from their two favored class.


Melkiador wrote:
Quote:
Multitalented: Half-elves choose two favored classes at first level and gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point whenever they take a level in either one of those classes.
Quote:
As in the previous section, what is presented here is a set of alternative benefits that characters of each race may choose instead of the normal benefits for their favored class. Thus, rather than taking an extra hit point or an extra skill rank, players may choose for their characters to gain the benefit listed here. This is not a permanent or irrevocable choice; just as characters could alternate between taking skill ranks and hit points when they gain levels in their favored class, these benefits provide a third option, and characters may freely alternate between them.
So, yes, half elves may choose the alternate favored class bonus for both of their favored classes. And if you wanted to be really strict, "and gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point". That "and" is an inclusive word, so technically half elves can choose an extra hit point or skill point and still have the bonuses from their two favored class.

That is not a strict reading, that is deliberately reading out of context and borders on disingenuous.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

That's an absolutely incorrect grammatical (and logical) reading of the use of "and." The word "and" connects choosing two classes and one of two bonuses, separated by an or, in other words, it literally says A & (B or C), where A is "choose two favored classes," B is "+1 hit point", and C is "+1 skill point."


It's actually reading completely in context. For the text to have the intended meaning it should say "so" instead of "and".


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No, revisit grammar and associated logic. You are confusing what the "and" applies to.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Melkiador wrote:
It's actually reading completely in context. For the text to have the intended meaning it should say "so" instead of "and".

That "and" does not mean you gain the HP/Skill Point with an alternate favored class bonus. You are interpreting that in a way that is pretty clearly not intended, so that isn't what the rules say.


Exactly it says A and (B or C). So you get A and then you would also choose B or C.


Lets take it another way then. How would it have been worded to have the other meaning?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Melkiador wrote:
Exactly it says A and (B or C). So you get A and then you would also choose B or C.

It absolutely is not A and (B or C), period.


And of course A is bigger than a set of B and C. It also contains R for the racial bonuses. So if you chose R, then the most logical interpretation is that you would still get B or C as part of multitalented.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

They are trying to explain the concept of having two favored classes, not give them a boost on top of two.

Quote:
Description: Half-elves choose two favored classes at first level and gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point whenever they take a level in either one of those classes.

means:

Quote:
Description: Half-elves choose two favored classes at first level. They may gain +1 hit point or +1 skill point whenever they take a level in either one of those classes or an alternate favored class bonus if they prefer.


That's what you say it means, but your claim isn't any stronger than anyone else's. At best the text is vague enough for your interpretation, but it requires you to use a weak version of the word "and", where the word "so" or "therefore" would have been more clear. "So" would even take up less letters, while being more clear.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Actually, it takes a plausible reason why the significant upgrade to Half Elf makes sense. Specifically, the "I get two favored classes and they are material better than a feat".


James Risner wrote:
Actually, it takes a plausible reason why the significant upgrade to Half Elf makes sense. Specifically, the "I get two favored classes and they are material better than a feat".

What "upgrade"? Every class gets bonuses. For example, elves get a few proficiency feats.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I've got no idea what you just said.

You are saying the feature that allows a Half Elf to gain two favored class bonuses does two things:

1) Allow a second.

2) Make your first and your second better than any other race.

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