| Bob McFaceshield |
My question boils down to: If you aren't using TWF, what determines which hand is your off hand?
Specifically, I'm looking at Shielded Gauntlet Mastery. It allows you to keep the shield bonus when attacking with your gauntlet, but does not remove the requirement that you have to start your turn with the gauntlet in/on your off hand. Now, we all understand which hand that means when you TWF, but if you aren't what does that mean exactly?
Is it whichever hand is not attacking? Then would it switch with every attack if I use different hands for my iterative attacks? Would this mean that i could make most of my iteratives with the gauntlet as long as I make the final attack with the other hand so that I'll start my next round with the gauntlet in the off hand?
Or perhaps I have to declare it. Does that declaration last the whole round, or can I change which hand is my off hand before/after attacks? Even if it's set for the whole round, then I could still use my "off hand" gauntlet to make all my iteratives just with 1/2 STR bonus right?
Or maybe I'm missing something simple about off hands. Seems to me that it's not well-defined outside of TWF.
| Kileanna |
For the simplicity of the game, all iterative attacks are supposed to be done with just one hand, your main hand. The bonus attacks from TWF are done with your offhand.
If you don't use your TWF you attack only with your main hand.
Your shielded gauntlet must be placed on whatever hand you don't use when you're not TWF.
Aside for that I don't know.
| Bob Bob Bob |
Short answer, the author is using off hand differently than the game does. Off hand in this case means "not main hand", not "second attack in TWF hand" (which is the only definition we had before). I think this comic covers it best.
When using this style, if you begin your turn wearing a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet on your off hand, and you are not using that hand to hold or make attacks with any other weapons or shield, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC. You lose this shield bonus whenever you attack with your gauntlet or hold a weapon or shield in that hand. While receiving this shield bonus to AC, your gauntlet or spiked gauntlet is treated as a buckler for the purpose of using other feats and abilities (though you are also considered to have a free hand). This feat acts as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of satisfying the prerequisites of the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats.
The base style requires that you wear the gauntlet on your off hand but you cannot attack with the gauntlet or anything held in the gauntlet. Which means it literally cannot be your off hand (as defined by TWF). That leaves us with "not your main hand" as the simplest definition.
| Bob McFaceshield |
That's generally true but if you hold two different weapons in your hands you can attack with either for your iteratives (assuming no TWF). I'm also pretty sure you get full STR bonus regardless of which weapon you use in that case.
I wish Shielded Gauntlet Style had left off the "off hand" portion and you just couldn't attack/hold etc until Mastery. But that probably woulda broken something else, I'm not a designer.
| Bob McFaceshield |
Short answer, the author is using off hand differently than the game does. Off hand in this case means "not main hand", not "second attack in TWF hand" (which is the only definition we had before). I think this comic covers it best.
Shield Gauntlet Style wrote:When using this style, if you begin your turn wearing a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet on your off hand, and you are not using that hand to hold or make attacks with any other weapons or shield, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC. You lose this shield bonus whenever you attack with your gauntlet or hold a weapon or shield in that hand. While receiving this shield bonus to AC, your gauntlet or spiked gauntlet is treated as a buckler for the purpose of using other feats and abilities (though you are also considered to have a free hand). This feat acts as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of satisfying the prerequisites of the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats.The base style requires that you wear the gauntlet on your off hand but you cannot attack with the gauntlet or anything held in the gauntlet. Which means it literally cannot be your off hand (as defined by TWF). That leaves us with "not your main hand" as the simplest definition.
When you reach Shielded Gauntlet Mastery you can attack with the gauntlet though. So, for example, if you have two iteratives and attack with one weapon each which hand is your main hand? The one which attacked with the higher bonus? Or (mostly thought example) if you only have one iterative but get a bonus attack from haste and split those between your weapons? How do you determine which is your main hand when you can attack with both?
| toastedamphibian |
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Don't worry about it? What specific set of circumstances is occurring that causes a problem?
A: You have a gauntlet on only 1 hand. That's your offhand.
B: You have a gauntlet on each hand, and do not have Shielded Gauntlet Master. You can only attack with one hand without forgoing the benefits, and the one you did not attack with is the off hand.
C: You have a gauntlet on each hand, and do have Shielded Gauntlet Master. You can attack with the hand at no penalty without losing the shield bonus, so which one does not matter.
Actual answer? My guess is that it is a typo. Remove "Off", and the ability reads more clearly, especially when considering the follow up feats.
"When using this style, if you begin your turn wearing a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet on your (-off) hand, and you are not using that hand to hold or make attacks with any other weapons or shield, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC. You lose this shield bonus whenever you attack with your gauntlet or hold a weapon or shield in that hand..."
Worst case scenario with that wording, you could get 2 shield bonuses, which would not stack. So not really a problem, ya know? Read "attack with your gauntlet" as applying only to that hand, as the following 2 clauses do, and everything lines up.
| Bob McFaceshield |
Don't worry about it? What specific set of circumstances is occurring that causes a problem?
...
Actual answer? My guess is that it is a typo. Remove "Off", and the ability reads more clearly, especially when considering the follow up feats.
Removing the "off" would indeed fix the problem. My initial read of Shield Gauntlet Master was that it would allow you to make all of your iteratives with the gauntlet and retain the shield bonus.
So, the circumstance would be:
Spiked Gauntlet A is +3
Spiked Gauntlet B is simply masterwork
I have Shield Gauntlet style
I also have Shield Gauntlet Mastery
Lets say I have 2 iterative attacks
Ignoring the off hand requirement I could get +4 Shield Bonus while making two attacks with Gauntlet A.
| Qaianna |
Right. Technically, you could walk around with a battleaxe and a warhammer and never incur offhand penalties ... by never doing actual TWF attacks. 'I use my +6 with the axe and my +1 with the hammer. Ha!'
Although ... why are you walking around with just one gauntlet on? Unless you've got max ranks in Performance (Dance) ...