Hi everyone,
I'm working on a set of mega-adventures (MAs) that take place in a massive dungeon. Here's the shtick, the game revolves around large groups of enemies that effectively have 1hp and deal chip damage to the PCs with their infinite supply (while they're alive) of acid vials. The one concern I have with these groups that turn into hordes revolves around races with energy resistance.
I have a few potential fixes: 1) the enemies throw Force Vials which deal 1d4 force damage, 2) turn energy resistance into a damage shield similar to the Resist Energy spell where the damage reduction is the Resistance Value, and the damage shield can absorb Resistance Value * Character Level (or total HDs) before failing.
What do you guys think?
In addition to the above, I have some other questions. The general theme of the MAs is that the players are isolated in a strange and unforgiving city. Traveling outside the town is dangerous since all overworld encounters are epic by default and can build on each other (when combat begins, one enemy will spend its turn shooting a firework into the air which calls another epic encounter into the fight which arrives in 1d4 minutes) if the players hang around for too long. On the bright side, the enemies are designed to have high DPR while targeting touch but low HP and defenses.
The idea is that the players can forage for magic items in this abandoned magic city to gear up, take on modules (which tend to be significantly easier than the overworld encounters and have a boss at the end), and help the camp survive while advancing the plot.
I'm trying to associate victory with defeat using mechanics. To that end, all of the enemies drop healing or consumable items when killed, but the healing offered by these items wouldn't necessarily keep up with the damage dealt.
In many ways, I'm building the enemies to circumvent normal AC as much as possible since lower-level enemies tend to struggle with harming higher AC PCs unless they target touch AC.
What do you guys think? Any general tips?
Troop subtype is my suggestion.
Also, a general tip, always bypassing PCs defenses is not fun for them. Bypass sometimes, yet have most things, even if due to inflation, be stopped, if you look for an epic feel.
Troop subtype is my suggestion.I was looking for rules for how to specifically craft these, but I couldn't find any.
Also, a general tip, always bypassing PCs defenses is not fun for them. Bypass sometimes, yet have most things, even if due to inflation, be stopped, if you look for an epic feel.
One major issue here is that Pathfinder is based on the axiom of monsters coming in small numbers and dealing a lot of damage. This axiom runs with the idea of enemies doing small mounts of damage while there being a lot of them. The average damage for the CR 1/3 enemies is 3 damage. This basically means that anyone with a racial energy resistance to whatever they're using makes them immune to damage (perhaps they start with Acid and switch to Cold or Fire). D&D 5E resolves this problem by making resistances just do half-damage.
Do you know where the rules for creating squads can be found?
So far all troop monsters have been custom designed for adventure paths. Supposedly the forthcoming Bestiary 6 will have a more generalized template.
I hope this is in addition to the normal mix. My fireball sorceress would love facing these guys; our barbarian, much less so.
Are you going to be pre-rolling attack rolls? Sitting around while the GM rolls 100 attack rolls that miss 90-99% of the time seems kind of boring. There's a reason they made Swarm rules.
why dont you just ban races with energy resist or tell them they have to trade it out for some other racial ability
I was thinking about this as an option as well. It instantly solves the issue.
I hope this is in addition to the normal mix. My fireball sorceress would love facing these guys; our barbarian, much less so.
This is literally the selling point here from a mechanical standpoint. The swarming enemies will have around 3 hp, so a great cleave / cleaving finish build that uses a reach weapon with Lunge is just going to be amazing.
Plus that fireball is going to potentially kill around 50 of them.
Are you going to be pre-rolling attack rolls? Sitting around while the GM rolls 100 attack rolls that miss 90-99% of the time seems kind of boring. There's a reason they made Swarm rules.
Since the range on thrown weapons is 10 ft, I'd probably only have the ones that are within that range attack. To speed things along, I might just go with rolling 1d20. For the next 20, they rolled that number + or - their slot. It would start at -10 and go all the way to +10. The smaller the group size, the lesser the penalty and bonus.
why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.
Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.
This way the damage is quick to calculate.
why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.This way the damage is quick to calculate.
I like it. Another option is to give them a collective damage aura that assumes they are just throwing acid flasks everywhere. If you're within 10 ft or so, you just take auto-damage equal to the group's average damage based on CR, reflex for half or something.
I like it. Another option is to give them a collective damage aura that assumes they are just throwing acid flasks everywhere. If you're within 10 ft or so, you just take auto-damage equal to the group's average damage based on CR, reflex for half or something.why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.This way the damage is quick to calculate.
That's how swarms operate, auto damage.
That's how swarms operate, auto damage.I like it. Another option is to give them a collective damage aura that assumes they are just throwing acid flasks everywhere. If you're within 10 ft or so, you just take auto-damage equal to the group's average damage based on CR, reflex for half or something.why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.This way the damage is quick to calculate.
I know, I was making the concept more swarm-like. I will probably wait until Bestiary 6 for squad rules.
I like it. Another option is to give them a collective damage aura that assumes they are just throwing acid flasks everywhere. If you're within 10 ft or so, you just take auto-damage equal to the group's average damage based on CR, reflex for half or something.why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.This way the damage is quick to calculate.
That does have the really shoddy effect of making a bard or a wizard who pumped Dex better than a Fighter in fullplate at surviving groups of enemies.
That does have the really shoddy effect of making a bard or a wizard who pumped Dex better than a Fighter in fullplate at surviving groups of enemies.I like it. Another option is to give them a collective damage aura that assumes they are just throwing acid flasks everywhere. If you're within 10 ft or so, you just take auto-damage equal to the group's average damage based on CR, reflex for half or something.why not just make them a swarm or a "troop?" I'm not sure what what the name is for mass combat stuff.
but you'll need some way to simplify their attacks.Maybe something like a percentage roll to how much damage they are doing. like the swarms average damage is 15 damage a round.
So if you roll a percentage of 50 then it does 15 damage. 100 is 30 and 25 would be 7. Then have that number modified by how many of the enemy there is. if you have 100 enemies, do a -1 per 5 enemies killed or something.This way the damage is quick to calculate.
At higher CRs there are enemies that basically just target AC.
Part of the point is throwing a wrench into how Pathfinder is played. Trying to design it to be interesting.
...[using troop subtype]...That does have the really shoddy effect of making a bard or a wizard who pumped Dex better than a Fighter in fullplate at surviving groups of enemies.At higher CRs there are enemies that basically just target AC.
Part of the point is throwing a wrench into how Pathfinder is played. Trying to design it to be interesting.
It isn't just a matter of "making the design interesting". Designing a "monster" that way breaks the AC and Reflex abstractions, and creates a verisimilitude issue. It also goes against the "similar should work similarly, different should work differently" design rule of thumb. It would be like a trap that targets Initiative, or an animal which is hit with the Handle Animal skill instead of an attack roll. It blatantly goes against how the rest of the game works, and it isn't using the mechanics which are meant to resolve that sort of interaction (in this case, AC, which is what attacks by a physical weapon target).