I know the ACG had a few editing problems, but there is one rule about archetype that seems to be missing from books that came after it.
The Advanced Class Guide added the following paragraph on the archetype rules:
If an archetype replaces a class feature that has a series of improvements, but it does not list one individual improvement, that class feature replaces the entire class feature and all of its improvements. For example, if a class feature says that it replaces trap sense without mentioning a specific bonus, it replaces all of trap sense.
However, this rule cannot be found on the rules for archetypes on the PRD (only on the ACG page about archetypes), nor it was reprinted on the Occult Adventures or Ultimate Intrigue.
So, what happened to this rule? Is it valid for archetypes that came before ACG? What about archetypes that came after ACG? Why it isnt on the PRD?
I'm not so sure, there's at least one case of pre ACG archetype that clearly does not replace the whole chain (specifically, the chirurgeon archetype for alchemist un UM). Can you tell us where in the ACG that rule is that I can check without having to reread the whole book?
PRD link (page 72 of ACG)
About the Chirurgeon, i dont see anything on the SRD that suggests that poison use (which has no chain), or poison immunity (which also doesnt), should replace the entire tree. Anesthesic already mentions it replaces "poison resistance +4" instead of "poison resistance", so the chain isnt affected, only the instance where they would learn it at +4 bonus.
If that's what you meant, then there are plenty of fighter and rogue arquetypes that only replace a specific entry on the chain instead of the entire chain. My question isnt about those though, the examples (which are printed on every hardcover with archetypes) are crystal clear.
My ACG, p 74 states that if an improvement takes the place of a class feature that improves in levels (such as ranger's Favored Enemy or fighter's weapon training), the next time the feature would be selected, it counts as the lower level feature rather than the improved version, that's congruent with what I deduced from the Chirurgeon only partially losing the Alchemist's poison ST bonus/immmunity chain. (It loses +4 and immunity, but not +2 and +6 which I deduced would convert to a +2 bonus for a total of +4)
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I think this FAQ indirectly confirms that the situation is unchanged. That is, some archetypes replace a class feature entirely while others only replace or delay certain aspects of it.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I think this FAQ indirectly confirms that the situation is unchanged. That is, some archetypes replace a class feature entirely while others only replace or delay certain aspects of it.
+1 Situation unchanged
They won't be making changes to archetypes to loosen restrictions. The only possible change would be to tighten restrictions.
The FAQ is not really related to my question. The FAQ linked is wether or not a character counts as having a class feature, or when they start counting as having a class feature, which is not what im asking.
Im asking about the rule found on the ACG:
If an archetype replaces a class feature that has a series of improvements, but it does not list one individual improvement, that class feature replaces the entire class feature and all of its improvements. For example, if a class feature says that it replaces trap sense without mentioning a specific bonus, it replaces all of trap sense.
So if an archetype says "Replaces sneak attack", it replaces the first entry of sneak attack (sneak attack +1d6) or it replaces all entries of sneak attack?
The rule i quoted from ACG says the entire class feature is gone, while the rule found on APG, UM, AC and on the PRD will make only the first entry disapear. So a rogue that takes an archetype that says "replaces sneak attack" will obtain +1d6 sneak attack at 3rd level instead of 1st level.
When an archetype only replaces part of a feature, it generally indicates that numerically somehow.
"This ability replaces armor training 1" on a fighter archetype means that the archetype gets Armor Training 1 at level 7 instead of level 3. The problem is that some class features that are improvements over existing class features are given entirely new names (e.g. Spell Combat, Improved Spell Combat, Greater Spell Combat) and sometimes the improvements are just baked into the description of the feature (e.g. "Every four levels thereafter, a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons").
ACG archetypes don't work differently than archetypes in other books. Archetypes printed before and after the ACG all contain the same note the OP quoted on archetypes (I know it's in Ultimate Intrigue, I think it's in recent player companions) so the rule has not changed.
The Advanced Class Guide added the following paragraph on the archetype rules:
If an archetype replaces a class feature that has a series of improvements, but it does not list one individual improvement, that class feature replaces the entire class feature and all of its improvements. For example, if a class feature says that it replaces trap sense without mentioning a specific bonus, it replaces all of trap sense.However, this rule cannot be found on the rules for archetypes on the PRD (only on the ACG page about archetypes), nor it was reprinted on the Occult Adventures or Ultimate Intrigue.
The rule is in Occult Adventures. It was rephrased a bit, though.
If a class feature has a series of improvements (such as a fighter’s weapon training or a ranger’s favored enemy), it can be replaced either entirely or partially. By default, an alternate class feature replaces the entire original class feature and all of its improvements. For example, if a class feature states that it replaces trap sense without mentioning a specific bonus, it replaces trap sense entirely.
If an alternate class feature replaces one instance of a class feature that’s part of a series, the next time the character would gain an improvement to that ability, the new improvement counts as the lower-level ability that was replaced by the archetype, and all subsequent improvements follow suit. For example, if the barbarian’s 3rd-level trap sense +1 were replaced, the barbarian would gain trap sense +1 at 6th level, trap sense +2 at 9th level, and so on.
The rule is in Occult Adventures. It was rephrased a bit, though.
Ah i walked right past that, i was looking for that specific paragraph. Thanks Gisher.
I did check ultimate intrigue again, that ruling is missing there.