Wendo Caller(Uda Wendo) Medium any good?

[Woodoodoo]

I was looking at the Wendo caller and it seems like a pretty interesting archetype. I was wondering what the best domains would be. In my everlasting quest to try to make flame blade dervish work I thought the lightning domain would be cool to get flame blade but its only at lvl 7 and very limited. I would obviously be taking the 1 burn when channeling the spirit so I would presumably have to boost my con and maybe taking toughness.
Y'all have any ideas? I tend to gravitate towards the small races normally and the halfling favored class bonus is especially nice.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

It seems like whoever wrote this didn't understand how Mediums work. You can just do your seance in the evening, take the Burn, then sleep it off with no downside.

I had some thoughts, but was mostly looking at it as a single level dip for extra flexibility in an Unsworn Shaman build. My main problem is that it doesn't interact well with Legendary Influence since using both means you're already taking your Spirit Penalty, and mostly can't surge. Legendary Influence is vital to getting Medium to work well.

I was looking at:

Rune Domain in PFS gets you Spell Focus, which helps Archmage quite a bit, and also potentially lets you take Augment Summoning through Legendary influence.

Wolf Domain gets Improved Trip without the Combat Expertise pre-req.

Trickery is great for move action Mirror Images.

Monkey Crocodile or Eagle for a familiar are all cool, especially if you can pick an Archetype (I don't see why you wouldn't.) Sharing your skill ranks with a Figment Monkey and the skilled evolution could end up with quite a large bonus in most skills (Level+10 Disable Device for example.) Sage could be similarly flexible. And Mauler is a handy flank buddy.

Cave Domain might be useful if you don't have Darkvision.

Swamp domain could be good if your group has lots of animal companions.

Aquatic domain is great if you're an Aquan with the aquatic racial trait.

Mountain domain might be handy for control at low levels.

[Tacticslion]

Dot.

[David knott 242]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

It seems like whoever wrote this didn't understand how Mediums work. You can just do your seance in the evening, take the Burn, then sleep it off with no downside.

Good catch!

Obviously the fix to this would have to involve linking up the recovery of burn with the departure of the spirit summoned at the séance somehow. My guess is that the authors of this archetype assumed that a séance would be conducted first thing in the morning and thus missed what might happen if it were done at any other time.

[Woodoodoo]

I thought the understanding was that you are channeling the domain and the spirit and get all in all 2 influence instead of the 1 you get normally. And then you get 2 free surges from your taboo. And the champion spirit doesn't have any influence increasing abilities.

[Firebug]

Woodoodoo wrote:

In my everlasting quest to try to make flame blade dervish work I thought the lightning domain would be cool to get flame blade but its only at lvl 7 and very limited

"Very limited" as in it counts as empowered for just a single damage instance per casting of the spell? Specifically: "The spell can deal this additional damage only once, even if it could affect the target multiple times."?

Or were you using the Lightning subdomain to pick up Flame Blade as a spell known in the first place?

Personally I feel like the best option for a "Flame Blade Dervish" at least mechanically is to look into Gozreh's Trident (Divine Trident on some pages), and Startoss Style (trident is in the thrown fighter weapon group). Then have a discussion with your GM whether the Swashbuckler's (or daring champion cavalier's) Precise Strike requires that the base weapon be a "a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon" which a trident is. Or whether the weapon has to deal piercing damage meaning you can use Weapon Versatility combat feat to gain precise strike on a warhammer.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

@Woodoodoo the problem is that Legendary Influence also requires you to give your spirit 1 more influence, so a Uda Wendo w/Legendary Influence starts the day at 3 (Influence Penalty.)

And playing a Medium without Legendary Influence loses a big chunk of the flexibility you're going Uda Wendo for in the first place.

[Woodoodoo]

Well the plan was to use the flame blade dervish feat. Without it both of those spells are just really bad.

[Firebug]

Yeah, just bad. Because doing 1d6+29 damage with 3 attacks (not including haste) vs touch at level 11, with just ranks in UMD and 3 feats(startoss) spent is terrible. So what if I am not adding a stat to damage. If action economy or limited resources is an issue, start with an actual Trident in hand, even without challenge you are probably doing 1d8+20-25ish but vs normal AC.
1d6+1 (from say, a scroll or wand) +6(startoss) +2xlevel(daring champion cavalier, challenge & precise strike).
Maybe even throw in couple levels of Devoted Muse everyone is talking about to pick up Opportune Parry and Riposte.

Perhaps we have different opinions of "really bad".

[Woodoodoo]

How are you casting those spells as a daring champion cavalier? The trident can't be thrown.

[avr]

A trident can be thrown, though with a 10' range increment WDD. Firebug's post mentioned using a scroll or wand.

[Woodoodoo]

Attacks with Divine trident are considered melee touch attacks.

[Firebug]

Also the damage bonus from Startoss Style does not require you to throw the weapon, it just has to be from the Thrown Fighter Weapon group.

The character I have running around with Startoss Style is a Flying Blade Swashbuckler with 2 levels of Far Strike Monk. Daggers for the most part, but the principle is the same.

And yes? The attacks with Gozreh's Trident are touch attacks? I didn't add in Power Attack or Piranha Strike or anything that would be turned off by touch attacks.

[Firebug]

But back to Uda Wendo, I feel like it is an interesting Archetype, but I haven't really fit it in to any character build. Counting as half level for the purposes of gaining the domain powers just kills it IMO. Being level 12 or 16 before you get the second domain power is just too long.

[Woodoodoo]

Yeah, I guess so. I might try it anyways because it sound kind of cool to play. Thanks for the advice guys. Ill keep trying to make flame blade work though even if it wont be the best. :p

[Markov Spiked Chain]

As I read it, you only ever get the 1st level Domain power, just your effective cleric level for the level 1 power advances.

[Woodoodoo]

Yeah you are exactly right Markov.

[Firebug]

I have a similarly themed character, though I went a bit more strength, focused on Feint, and used a Battle Poi instead. You can certainly adapt it to go pure flame blade. It is far from 'optimal' and there are some unusual choices that I'll go into. I am pretty sure I mentioned most of this in another thread so I'll spoiler it.

Satrap of the Second Dawn:

Satrap of the Second Dawn
Male Ifrit Mesmerist 1 (Fey Trickster) / Inquisitor of Sarenrae (Sacred Hunstman/Green Faith Marshal*) 10
N Medium Outsider(Native)
Alternative Racial Trait: Energy Resistance & Spell-like Ability -> Brazen Flame (+1 fire damage on melee attacks)
Starting: 16 Str, 14 Dex(inc +2 racial), 12 Con, 7 Int, 12 Wis(inc -2 racial), 16 Cha(inc +2 racial)
Level 4 and 8 are probably into Wisdom to cast higher level spells. Yes, Ifrit really is "terrible" for Inquisitor.
Trait: Born under the Stranger (lesser penalties to Feint aberrations)
Trait: Magical Knack (Mesmerist**)
I picked a Camel for an Animal Companion, because it was a desert scenario, and low level Camels are reasonably buff (18 str, 14 Con, Large, and 50' move). Who doesn't cringe at a Sickening Entangling (Skirmisher Trick) touch attack loogie?
The important bit is that Sacred Huntsman gains Animal Focus. There is a feat called Planar Focus, and specifically the Fire focus adds 1d6/4 levels fire damage to your natural attacks and melee weapons.
The archetypes do not trade out Bane either, so I add that as well.
Fire Domain for the standard Domain, per Fire Affinity from Ifrit this increases the caster level of the Fire Domain spells by 1. Produce Flame is on the Fire Domain list, and I can cast it as a 1st level spell from Fey Tricksters Mesmerist. Along with Magical Knack** I am getting an ok duration and damage on Produce Flame until I can afford the Ioun Stone for Proficiency in Battle Poi.

*Green Faith Marshal is unusual. It says "The Green Faith marshal gains one domain selected from the animal and terrain domains. The 1st-though 6th-level bonus spells from this domain are added to the Green Faith marshal’s spell list.
This ability alters the inquisitor’s domain ability and replaces the stern gaze ability." This unusual because it doesn't 'replace' the Domains ability of the default Inquisitor, only 'alters'. It only 'replaces' Stern Gaze. It doesn't say that you must choose from the Animal/Terrain domains for your domain ability, only that you 'gain' the new domain. Based on that wording, you have your normal choice for domain still and the special domain from Green Faith Marshal.
However, you can easily drop the Archetype, its only really there for the Familiar from Snake Domain (+3 bluff, valet familiar to share your teamwork feats with if your animal companion dies).

If I were to redo it and focus solely on Flame Blade, I would probably drop the Ifrit, Mesmerist and Feinting focus, and pick up a level of Cleric or something with channeling for Energy Channel + Channeling Scourge (since you are doing damage with Energy Channel the Inquisitor levels should stack?). Sarenrae again to gain Flame Blade as a 3rd level Inquisitor spell.
So something like 1d6 + 5 (caster level) + 6ish (Cha, Flame Blade Dervish) + 2d6+2 (bane) + 2d6 (Planar Focus: Fire) + 12 (Energy Channel) = Average 42.5 and ignore the first 10(30 vs undead) of fire resistance. Only BAB +7 at 11 though.

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

As I read it, you only ever get the 1st level Domain power, just your effective cleric level for the level 1 power advances.

Wow, and I thought it wasn't worth it when you eventually gained the other powers...

[Woodoodoo]

Yeah I saw your build as well. It looks pretty awesome. I should try playing it sometimes.