Help with a Polearm Master Fighter build

[Andre Roy]

It is still a working concept for a glaive-wielding fighter but I've got enough of the basic to be able to start running down:

Race: Undecided yet, but definitely not human
Minimal stats built would be: STR 15, DEX 15, Int 13.

For feat I was considering:
1st: Weapon focus(glaive) and Power Attack (or Combat Expertise)
2nd: Combat Reflexes
3rd: Combat Expertise (or Power Attack)

And at that point that's where I'm kind of stuck As I see I have several options and I,m not too sure which ones would be the best. I'm not trying to optimize, but want ot be able to make full use of the polearm

What I see as possibility are:
1) Take improve trip, greater trip and drag Down (Combat Expertise)
2) Pin down (combat reflexes)
3) Grab Dodge and Mobility
4) Cleave, great Cleave, cleaving finish, Improved cleaving finish (power attack)
5) Improved sunder, greater sunder, sundering strike (Power attack)
6) Greater Weapon focus
7) Weapon specialization and greater specialization
8) Vital strike, improved vital strike, greater vital strike, devastating strike and improved devastating strike.

Any comments, suggestion or help would be appreciated. Oh and if you think I've overlooked something let me know.

[Athaleon]

Don't use the Polearm Master archetype because it gives up both Weapon and Armor Training. Look into Advanced Weapon and Armor Training to shore up some of the weaknesses of the Fighter class.

[Louise Bishop]

Athaleon wrote:

Don't use the Polearm Master archetype because it gives up both Weapon and Armor Training. Look into Advanced Weapon and Armor Training to shore up some of the weaknesses of the Fighter class.

I agree. Those sweet new features are worth diving into.

Lore Warden is a nice Archetype. It keeps Weapon Training, gives your Combat Expertise, Adds more skills and skill points to your list, and is great for maneuvers using a reach weapon.

[Jae Wolftail]

With the fact that you're going to use a glaive, you may want the feat: Bladed Brush and maybe with that Slashing Grace.

[Andre Roy]

Athaleon wrote:

Don't use the Polearm Master archetype because it gives up both Weapon and Armor Training. Look into Advanced Weapon and Armor Training to shore up some of the weaknesses of the Fighter class.

considering the concept in mind it still remains the best archetype for it. The lost of Weapon training (in favor of focus in polearm and spear) is actually beneficial for me. I will grant it that the lost of Armor Training is somewhat of an annoyance though.

Louise Bishop wrote:

Lore Warden is a nice Archetype. It keeps Weapon Training, gives your Combat Expertise, Adds more skills and skill points to your list, and is great for maneuvers using a reach weapon.

That has potential, I lose the ability to choke my grip on the polearm, but it does make using Combat maneouver easier and i do save on a feat. I'll have to look into it more in depth.

Jae Wolftail wrote:

With the fact that you're going to use a glaive, you may want the feat: Bladed Brush and maybe with that Slashing Grace.

The first one looks interesting, but it is Deity specific, so i would have ot get the GM seal of apporuval. The second one is nice and would have an interesting synergy with it.

[Ryan Freire]

Hmm, slashing grace i dont know about. if the stats are going 15 str 15 dex, it might be better to just stop at bladed brush (gm approval pending) and budget for the AWT option that doubles your weapon training bonus. Str and dex aren't really that far apart to devote a whole feat to swapping which does damage and which is to hit though.

Here's my thought (Assuming the stats are set in stone)

Lore warden Fighter

Staple feats. Combat reflexes, power attack, bladed brush (trip chain)

That seems the basic build.

AWT Edit to remove armed bravery which was added due to brainfart, Trained Grace (if str/dex remain close), warrior spirit

Pick a second maneuver chain (i'd probably choose dirty trick, its the most versatile) for when you're fighting something you cant trip.

Pick a non reach backup weapon, armor spikes or boulder helm or try to find a good place to work spear dancer style in.

Now, assuming those stats aren't set in stone and you can mess around with them a bit.

Bump starting str to 16, drop dex to 14. Leave int alone or dump it to ensure con is healthy and wis or cha is pumped a bit.

No Archetype fighter

Staple feats still combat reflexes lunge and power attack, but you take the trip chain with dirty fighting from the dirty tactics toolbox. It provides a more useful benefit. You'll also take shield focus.

Second maneuver chain still dirty trick for the same reasons. Your shield can be a backup weapon.

But, AWT doesn't need to spend an option on trained grace, so you can get some of the more interesting options after taking care of your will save and the like.

You also get to use the advanced armor training options, the first one will probably be shield brace, letting you use a shield and your polearm at the same time, this also gives you your close in weapon letting you shield bash enemies who get past your trips.

The non archetype also opens up that feat that lets you share your bravery bonus with the rest of the class.

[Athaleon]

Andre Roy wrote:

considering the concept in mind it still remains the best archetype for it. The lost of Weapon training (in favor of focus in polearm and spear) is actually beneficial for me. I will grant it that the lost of Armor Training is somewhat of an annoyance though.

The loss of Weapon Training is absolutely not beneficial for you. You lose access to:

- Gloves of Dueling (boosts your Weapon Training bonus by 2)
- Warrior's Spirit (main use of which is on-demand Bane[Current Target], or properties like Ghost Touch that aren't needed often but are very handy when you do)
- Armed Bravery (nothing worse than when the party's melee wrecking machine gets Dominated)
- Fighter's Reflexes (not needed as much in a high DEX build, but very helpful for low DEX heavy armor characters)

Among other options that can be very helpful depending on specific build (such as Trained Grace).

You can use the Spear Dancing Style feat to shift your grip on the polearm (why in Lord Buddha's name does that require a feat / class feature?) as a swift action as well, with no penalty on attack rolls, and the option to TWF with it.

Louise Bishop wrote:

That has potential, I lose the ability to choke my grip on the polearm, but it does make using Combat maneouver easier and i do save on a feat. I'll have to look into it more in depth.

I second Lore Warden if you want to use maneuvers (frankly most maneuvers aren't great), and if you go with Lore Warden you might as well look into Bladed Brush as well.

Also, Phalanx Formation can be an important feat if you want to use a reach weapon, since without it you can't take attacks of opportunity through friendly-occupied squares.

[Kigvan]

Sadly Lore Warden's do not benefit from Armed Bravery. They lose their Bravery class feature and thus don't have a number for Armed Bravery to add.

[Athaleon]

Kigvan wrote:

Sadly Lore Warden's do not benefit from Armed Bravery. They lose their Bravery class feature and thus don't have a number for Armed Bravery to add.

Yeah, that's true. I'm sort of going between Lore Warden and Default here.

[Andre Roy]

Hmm looking at it more in depth, if getting Bladed Brush is not possible due to the deity reuirement, a straight fighter with weapon focus (glaive) and two weapon fighting at first level could take spear dancing style (really all I need in that chain) at second to be able to choke his grip and use a polearm efficiently at short range.

And the Eldritch Guardian with an Emissary familiar would be very the fitting too, but push back a bit my feat progression as I lose my first 2 bonus feat...so spear dancing only at 4th. But that wouldn't be too bad.

And the scaling +1 will bonus Vs fear and mind-affecting effect instead of bravery works good too.

[Scott Wilhelm]

How married are you to Pole Arm Master?

For a pole-fighting fighter, I really like Phalanx Soldier better than Polearm Master. I don't think much of the Shorten Grip Ability. I really like the idea of being able to use a pole arm with a shield.

With a Reach Weapon and Combat Reflexes, you get an AOO when someone tries to get inside on you. And with a Shield, you might take Shield Slam (and Improved Shield Bash) to Bull Rush anyone who does get inside on you back to be tenderized by your Reach Pole Arm again.

If you take Greater Bull Rush, you offer Attacks of Opportunity to all your allies you hit with your Shield. If you take Paired Opportunist via a 1 level dip in Cavalier or a 3 level dip in Inquisitor, you get the AoO, too.

With Great Cleave, you can Cleave everyone both 5' and 10' away with your Shield and your Reach Pole Arm.

Or you can 2 Weapon Fight with a Halberd and Shield.

If you take Hamatula Strike, and a Spiked Shield and Armor Spikes, you can Grapple your opponents with every hit, doing Armor Spike Damage. You can then also Bull Rush them away with your Shield, and skewer them with your Halberd and do more Armor Spike Damage: Brutal.

But you said Glaive: why Glaive? Lucerne Hammers do more damage, and you can choose between Piercing and Blunt. You said Tripping. So, how about Horsechopper? A size Medium Horsechopper does 1d10 Slashing and is a Trip Weapon.

For Tripping weapons without Reach, I like Sickles. The advantage of a Trip Weapon is that in the event of a catastrophic Trip Attempt that would result in getting Tripped yourself, you can instead just drop your Trip Weapon. But if your Trip Weapon is a Halberd, Guisarme, or Horsechopper, you will really miss that when it's gone. But lose a Sickle? Just shrug your shoulders, and pull another one off your belt.

If you don't like my idea about pole and Shield, you should keep some other good, spare close weapon handy for when you can't just keep your victims at the end of your pike.

I have other ideas, if you want.

[Andre Roy]

I'm still flexible on the archetype and I was looking at the Phalanx Soldier. It's possible but it might need a bit of reflavoring (it would be for a Norse-like setting), but it wouldn't be much of a stretch as (long)Spear + round shield is a well known Viking combat style. WE're still loosing on Weapon and Armour training (like most archetype though).

The Reason behind the glaive, is again thematic, he would be using a [url=http://spangenhelm.com/less-commonly-known-viking-weapons-atgeir/]Atgeir[/b] which is pretty much a glaive-like polearm.

[Athaleon]

For some reason the Shield Brace feat isn't on d20pfsrd, but it's a single feat from the Armor Master's Handbook that lets you use a shield with any two-handed spear or polearm. Again, the Phalanx Soldier gives up Weapon and Armor Training, which puts it well below the default Fighter offensively, defensively, and in out-of-combat utility.

[Eigengrau]

There is that Shield Brace feat that let's you use a polearm 1 handed. sorry if someone mentioned it already. I don't know if you can get away with using a spiked shield with it for close in attacks though.

[Andre Roy]

Shield Brace is an option that help "armorwise" and potentially for closer combat by using the shield to bash the opponent with it (but very low damage imput)...and the To hit penalty (-1 or -2) isn't too bad and it's an extra feat for the Improved shield Bash to keep the AC bonus.

[OldRolero]

I have this build I call the "Lost Heir":

Race: Human

Character Traits: Defender of the Society, Carefully Hidden

Abilities (20p/buy)
1st S14+2 D13 C14 I10 W10 C15

Class: Fighter (VMC Bard) 12
FBC: Fighter +12 Skill Points

1 - Bonus Combat Feat (Power Attack), Human Feat (Shield Focus), Combat Reflexes
2 - Bravery +1, Bonus Combat (Shield Brace)
3 - Armor Training, Flagbearer
4 - Bonus Combat Feat (Improved Bravery), +1 STR
5 - Weapon Training (Polearms), Cut from the Air
6 - Bravery +2, Bonus Combat Feat (Inspiring Bravery)
7 - Advanced Armor Training (Armor Specialization), Bardic Performance (Inspire courage +1, Inspire competence +2)
8 - Barroom Brawler, +1 STR
9 - Advanced Weapon Training: Abundant Tactics, Smash from the Air
10 - Bravery +3, Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior Spirit
11 - Versatile Performance (Oratory), Inspire courage +2, Inspire competence +3, Advanced Armor Training (Armored Juggernaut)
12 - Bonus Combat Feat (Pin Down), +1 CHA

This character is conceibed as a support and tank warrior. The high Charisma is basically a tax for the flagbearer feat, but once you hit 7th level and grab Inspire Courage and a Banner of the Ancient Kings, you start to give big bonuses to your party members, in addition to the ones provided by Inspiring Bravery.

With Shield brace, Armor specialization, Armor training, Shield focus, Defender of the Society, Armored Juggernaut and Cut/Slash from the Air, you get top notch defenses.

Having a Two-handed weapon with power attack, plus your Weapon Training and the magical aid you can pick up with Warrior Spirit, the character is still a force to be reckon in melee.

Finally, Abundant Tactics and Barroon Brawler let you be versatile on the fly, and exploit the combo of picking an Item mastery feat via Advanced Weapon Training, and getting support magic whenever you need it (Teleportation mastery and Fly mastery will be the usual choices).

Skill wise, he is not the brightest, but with a decent charisma and his lost heir background, he can fit the party face role if needed (specially later, with versatile performance)

Notable Gear to grab:
Banner of the Ancient King, Gloves of Dueling, Adamantite Fullplate armor, Sash of the War Champion.

[Andre Roy]

As is, it's not the right built for me, VMC is off the table, and I'm not going human, however thee are good elements there that worth looking into.