Request: Wand using improved familiar update

[Fromper]

So it was established years ago that the only improved familiars that can even attempt to use wands are the ones with hands, which according to this PFS FAQ are the brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, and sprite. This also means that non-improved familiars can't use wands, even if they were born with hands, so that rules out your run of the mill monkeys.

The problem is that this FAQ is from March, 2012. Can we get an update that includes new familiars with hands that have been introduced to the game since then? I only know of one offhand (the xiao introduced in Bestiary 5, which is already PFS legal), but it wouldn't surprise me if I was missing more.

[Hmm]

I would also love to see this list updated.

Hmm

[Christopher Waterfield]

Same here. This question came up last week on our local group.

[Azothath]

in the PFS FAQ the first line is, "It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items."
so what you're asking is for a larger list of exceptions.

AFAIK hands are not required by RAW to use wands. Spell casting (fine manipulations for somatic components, language entry for verbal components) and a) spellcasting with spell on your spell list or b) Use Magic Device skill with a skill check success. There are multiple examples of creatures spellcasting without hands and even without some of the above criteria.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to see the list updated.
I would like the process and costs for a familiar to swap out feats outlined to clarify how to obtain the Extra Slot feat.
I would like to see the manufactured weapon topic revisited and clarified, particularly for Eldritch Knights.
The only familiar with a spell list is the Faerie Dragon. The rest use Use Magic Device.
Clockwork familiar, Ratling, Soulbound Doll, Child of the Briar are complicated with/by spellcasting.

In any event, these changes increase the usefulness of a familiar in combat and don't do much in out of combat situations. Is that desirable? Will it cause table issues?

[Fromper]

Stephen Ross wrote:

In any event, these changes increase the usefulness of a familiar in combat and don't do much in out of combat situations. Is that desirable? Will it cause table issues?

It won't increase the usefulness of the Improved Familiar feat that much, since there are already a handful of improved familiars that can do this. It'll just result in a wider variety of familiars being chosen with that feat, since people will be more likely to choose a new familiar that's not on the old list.

[Sin of Asmodeus]

Oh, good. I grow weary killing the same type of familiars over and over again

[Azothath]

Fromper wrote:

Stephen Ross wrote:

...

In any event, these changes increase the usefulness of a familiar in combat and don't do much in out of combat situations. Is that desirable? Will it cause table issues?

It won't increase the usefulness of the Improved Familiar feat that much, since there are already a handful of improved familiars that can do this. It'll just result in a wider variety of familiars being chosen with that feat, since people will be more likely to choose a new familiar that's not on the old list.

wider variety, more choices, more powers and various SLAs. That is an increase in power and usefulness for this option.

[Flutter]

spams hoofprints on this hard enough to perform: riverdance

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Stephen Ross wrote:

AFAIK hands are not required by RAW to use wands.

That's because paizo didn't think that they actually had to put in rules text that you had to hold a wand in your hand to use it. They'd most likely figure that you'd all had watched enough Harry Potter by now.

Seriously how is a creature without hands, supposed to use a wand? If it's holding it in it's mouth, it can't utter the command word to do so.

[Nefreet]

Speaking to Tonya this last weekend, it sounds like an update is almost at hand (among a myriad others).

[Fromper]

I just hope they include the xiao. The fluff on that creature is awesome (winged monkey!), but it's currently not worth taking as an improved familiar. Since it has hands, you'd think it could UMD wands, and that would make it worth taking.

[GreySector]

Stephen Ross wrote:

Clockwork familiar, Ratling, Soulbound Doll, Child of the Briar are complicated with/by spellcasting.

Ratling isn't PFS legal (neither is soulbound doll, but it can be acquired with a boon). Child of the Briar appears to be from a third party product.

[thistledown]

I agree that an update is needed. There's still 8 too many familiars that are messing with action economy and giving extra hands.

[Ascalaphus]

If anyone was working on such an update, they'd be under NDA, so your best best is to listen to Tonya's hints about it.

I don't think you should ever expect ratlings to become legal though. It requires the master to be chaotic evil (bad!). Also, it can use scrolls from any spell list. Which doesn't jive well with the regime of limiting familiars so they don't become full secondary PCs.

[Lemartes]

Tripurasura!!!

Ahem...

[The Great Rinaldo!]

Fromper wrote:

I just hope they include the xiao. The fluff on that creature is awesome (winged monkey!), but it's currently not worth taking as an improved familiar. Since it has hands, you'd think it could UMD wands, and that would make it worth taking.

Funny you should mention the xiao ... I just discovered it, and my 12th level "Free Trading Corsair"* Magus now has one. It's a parrot-monkey, the perfect sailing captain's companion. The magus is a wand-wielder with over 20 wands on a pair of bandoliers. He can draw and cast, then have the familiar take the wand and put it away all in the same round. With the wings, it becomes a great eye-in-the-sky scout, and being tiny it can get into nooks and crannies.

* read: pirate. ;-)

[Ferious Thune]

Tony Lindman wrote:

Fromper wrote:

I just hope they include the xiao. The fluff on that creature is awesome (winged monkey!), but it's currently not worth taking as an improved familiar. Since it has hands, you'd think it could UMD wands, and that would make it worth taking.

Funny you should mention the xiao ... I just discovered it, and my 12th level "Free Trading Corsair"* Magus now has one. It's a parrot-monkey, the perfect sailing captain's companion. The magus is a wand-wielder with over 20 wands on a pair of bandoliers. He can draw and cast, then have the familiar take the wand and put it away all in the same round. With the wings, it becomes a great eye-in-the-sky scout, and being tiny it can get into nooks and crannies.

* read: pirate. ;-)

Neat. I currently have a Brownie following me around and picking up the wands my Wand Wielder Magus drops. Occasionally, he'll try to use one of them, but I pretty much keep him out of combat. I'd think about a Xiao next level (7th Magus), but I'm pretty set on a certain boon familiar from season 4, since I have the chronicle on that character..

[Lune]

If it isn't too much to ask can the FAQ, blog, or whatever also include whether a Familiar plays by the same rules that Animal Companions do for item slots or not. The current FAQ wording leaves a lot to be desired for clarity on the topic.

Basically, if one wanted to have a Brownie as a familiar are they allowed to wear armor (is armor the same as barding here?), wield a weapon (they have a short sword in their stat block), a magic weapon... perhaps even a magic bow? For the record this would be for an Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archetype's Familiar.

Not trying to be overly pedantic but I can't wrap my head around calling what a Brownie would wear "barding". The Monkey See Monkey Do blog cleared up some things and the PFS FAQ states that Animal Companions are not allowed to use manufactured weapons but it says nothing about Familiars. It says Animal Companions can use "barding" and neck slot items but is silent about what Familiars can use other than Ioun Stones and Wands.

[Serisan]

It's sad that an issue that has been FAQ'd so much in 2015 is still an issue in 2017, when part of the clarification came in 2013.

[TheEverbloodFighter]

Please please do, there's been so many more improved familiar options added! We need more variety (and encouragement to use this options)!

[Ascalaphus]

Keep in mind that a lot of the new familiars are things like flying eyeballs. The amount of biped improved familiars is pretty small.

[Fromper]

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Keep in mind that a lot of the new familiars are things like flying eyeballs. The amount of biped improved familiars is pretty small.

Winged

monkeys

*mike drop*

[Lorewalker]

Fromper wrote:

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Keep in mind that a lot of the new familiars are things like flying eyeballs. The amount of biped improved familiars is pretty small.

Winged

monkeys

*mike drop*

Xiao can't speak and thus couldn't use wands. Which is a shame.

[Onikokoro Vallaway]

Lorewalker wrote:

Fromper wrote:

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Keep in mind that a lot of the new familiars are things like flying eyeballs. The amount of biped improved familiars is pretty small.

Winged

monkeys

*mike drop*

Xiao can't speak and thus couldn't use wands. Which is a shame.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-eloquence/

This ring fixes that so we need a update soon I also want a list of which familiars can wield weapons.

[Keep Calm and Carrion]

Any idea why Arbiter familiars can't use wands? They have hands and can speak.

[andreww]

Onikokoro Vallaway wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-eloquence/

This ring fixes that so we need a update soon I also want a list of which familiars can wield weapons.

If you don't have hands to carry a wand how do you expect to wear a ring?

You could invest in a hand of glory but that is another 8k and I doubt a flying eyeball has a neck slot.

[Red Metal]

andreww wrote:

Onikokoro Vallaway wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-eloquence/

This ring fixes that so we need a update soon I also want a list of which familiars can wield weapons.

If you don't have hands to carry a wand how do you expect to wear a ring?

You could invest in a hand of glory but that is another 8k and I doubt a flying eyeball has a neck slot.

I'm pretty sure Onikokoro was talking about getting a ring for the Xiao (winged monkey)