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Some people have noticed that some of the factions are... a bit lacking in their... fibre/construction.
The Exchange is the unholy merging of two disparate trade methodologies, that leaves little synergy for a proper synthesis of the two.
The Scarab Sages can come off as a bit 'aloof' and uncaring, as does the Grand Lodge (in the absence of a Player's Union such as the Shadow Lodge).
The Sovereign Court might feel a bit too snooty for most folks to feel like they can relate to it.
The Dark Archive is rumored to be all devil-worshiping alt-recreational lifestyle folks.
Liberty's Edge is half 'destroy slavery at all costs' merged with 'cover up the screw-ups of the faction lead'.
The Silver Crusade is 'do good', but... how does that enter into play without derailing some scenarios?
Please note, this is NOT a dig on the factions as a whole, but rather a simple request:
How, theoretically, could factions be 'spiced up' a little bit in the remainder of this season and going forward to make them 'living' organizations versus a stereotypical sort of construct?
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Here is one with a good 'reveal/retcon" value.
After Torch's betrayal of his own faction, Colsom Madris quietly went about protecting those members of the Shadow Lodge loyal to the original SL goal of keeping the ten accountable.
The fact that Pathfinder agents do have the potential to be enslaved or controlled by the Ten dovetailed nicely with Liberties Edge goals and helped the faction become less "Andoran".
Now, Madris new right hand is clearly and openly ex Shadow Lodge.
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Personally, I love the current faction setup.
It was always really challenging to explain to people the various nationalities and why they as new players should care.
Please do not misunderstand, they ARE an improvement over what was there before for the most part, based on the experience of someone who came in after the change-over.
The idea for the Shadow Lodge working with Liberty's Edge is sort of a neat one... perhaps someone idealistic who is trying to get the faction 'back on track', even?
As far as the Archive, Meridoc, it's the rumors and perception, and no idea. The concept that perhaps Zarta is Thrice-Damned as well, though...
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Here is one with a good 'reveal/retcon" value.
After Torch's betrayal of his own faction, Colsom Madris quietly went about protecting those members of the Shadow Lodge loyal to the original SL goal of keeping the ten accountable.
The fact that Pathfinder agents do have the potential to be enslaved or controlled by the Ten dovetailed nicely with Liberties Edge goals and helped the faction become less "Andoran".
Now, Madris new right hand is clearly and openly ex Shadow Lodge.
Shut your lie hole!
I refuse to believe that Captain Maldris, the lying, murdering, stealing, backstabbing, worthless piece of hide I was more than happy to betray in a certain scenario is in charge of the greatest faction ever (and when given the chance will sell him out so fast it'll make your head spin).
Liberties Edge has nothing to do with the Shadow Lodge, nor will it ever.
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Here is one with a good 'reveal/retcon" value.
After Torch's betrayal of his own faction, Colsom Madris quietly went about protecting those members of the Shadow Lodge loyal to the original SL goal of keeping the ten accountable.
The fact that Pathfinder agents do have the potential to be enslaved or controlled by the Ten dovetailed nicely with Liberties Edge goals and helped the faction become less "Andoran".
Now, Madris new right hand is clearly and openly ex Shadow Lodge.
Shut your lie hole!
I refuse to believe that Captain Maldris, the lying, murdering, stealing, backstabbing, worthless piece of hide I was more than happy to betray in a certain scenario is in charge of the greatest faction ever (and when given the chance will sell him out so fast it'll make your head spin).
Liberties Edge has nothing to do with the Shadow Lodge, nor will it ever.
Okay, so if the Shadow Lodge is Forever, how do we get it back?
It seemed like a really good faction. Some have said it was 'too good' and everyone went that way because it watched out for fellow Pathfinders.
Before my time, but perhaps it is time for a revival?
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That suggestion has already been supplied to the development team some time ago, and they're creative (I suspect they have lots of ideas). If anything happens, it will have to happen organically in terms of the story as presented, and our suggestions here will likely not move that much faster.
The fact that Colson Maldris has been well labeled as The Worst Person Ever(tm) gives me hope the developers are already considering something.
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Personally, I love the current faction setup.
It was always really challenging to explain to people the various nationalities and why they as new players should care.
Please do not misunderstand, they ARE an improvement over what was there before for the most part, based on the experience of someone who came in after the change-over.
The idea for the Shadow Lodge working with Liberty's Edge is sort of a neat one... perhaps someone idealistic who is trying to get the faction 'back on track', even?
As far as the Archive, Meridoc, it's the rumors and perception, and no idea. The concept that perhaps Zarta is Thrice-Damned as well, though...
Its a new Pathenon!
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Colson Maldris isn't my favorite person, but I don't think he deserves that label.That's only because he didn't murder your parent just because there was the chance he would be found out regarding the affair.
Care to cite the source for that? I'm unfamiliar with it. (with spoiler tags, of course).
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Colson Maldris isn't my favorite person, but I don't think he deserves that label.That's only because he didn't murder your parent just because there was the chance he would be found out regarding the affair.
I don't recall seeing that in any scenario I've played, but I do recall at least one bad thing he did.
While that's bad enough, I don't think it rises to the level of "Worst Person Ever."
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Here is one with a good 'reveal/retcon" value.
After Torch's betrayal of his own faction, Colsom Madris quietly went about protecting those members of the Shadow Lodge loyal to the original SL goal of keeping the ten accountable.
The fact that Pathfinder agents do have the potential to be enslaved or controlled by the Ten dovetailed nicely with Liberties Edge goals and helped the faction become less "Andoran".
Now, Madris new right hand is clearly and openly ex Shadow Lodge.
Shut your lie hole!
I refuse to believe that Captain Maldris, the lying, murdering, stealing, backstabbing, worthless piece of hide I was more than happy to betray in a certain scenario is in charge of the greatest faction ever (and when given the chance will sell him out so fast it'll make your head spin).
Liberties Edge has nothing to do with the Shadow Lodge, nor will it ever.
And knowing Madris' sterling qualities, they would be in the perfect position to remove Madris and take over.
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While that's bad enough, I don't think it rises to the level of "Worst Person Ever."
It's back in roughly Season 3 his background of being a horrible person is revealed (and before then there were plenty of questionable faction missions with lots of assassinations). There's A great thread about it back when it first came up. The aforespoilered scenario is just the most recent evidence that his less-than-honorable background is still an issue.
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Maldris hides assassination and murder under a veneer of fighting for freedom. He protects his own reputation before the goals he allegedly champions. That includes ensuring that no negative words come out regarding his indiscretions, up to, and including sending agents to silence these people. He hides under a guide of honor while in fact being quite dishonorable.
That makes him a bad person at a minimum, and in my book on the short list for 'the worst person ever'(tm).
Maldris is the sole reason I struggle play LE characters.
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Care to cite the source for that? I'm unfamiliar with it. (with spoiler tags, of course).
Details slightly wrong but here it is...
While attending a ball in Magnimar, I had the ill fortune of meeting an Aspis Consortium agent named Ascalar Vruul. The devious sorcerer used magic to gain my trust, and extracted from me a rather sordid account of my liaison with a very young—and very married—lady of Magnimarian nobility. Vruul is now blackmailing me. Unless I leave Magnimar before the end of the month, he promises to send the lady’s husband damning information regarding the indiscretion. This cannot happen, for it will undermine our efforts to establish an embassy in Magnimar.
My sources tell me that you may soon be in contact with Vruul. Though it disgusts me to resort to such tactics, for the sake of Andoran, I need him dead. An encounter with the Aspis Consortium will serve as a justification for such actions.
Now note the following. The stated request isn't provided under the guise of, "this helps Andoran" or "there are slaves to save", it's "somebody found something out about me and I need him dead, oh because this might hurt us, but it's not me I swear." To further this cover-up, it's explicitly stated that since you're essentially killing bad guys anyway, nobody will notice another dead guy.
That's nothing more than requesting an assassination. Using means justify ends arguments in the case of assassinations is not something nice people do.
Seriously, if you're going to say that it's "my interpretation of his actions" where his actions are to ask you to murder, then I'd hate to see what you consider "a bad guy".
Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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That's nothing more than requesting an assassination. Using means justify ends arguments in the case of assassinations is not something nice people do.
Seriously, if you're going to say that it's "my interpretation of his actions" where his actions are to ask you to murder, then I'd hate to see what you consider "a bad guy".
Unfortunately, that really doesn't sound as bad as you make it out to be and truth be told doesn't even come close to the worst implications for a faction mission which arguably belongs to Zarta.
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And knowing Madris' sterling qualities, they would be in the perfect position to remove Madris and take over.
My proposal would be to take out two factions that no longer are relevant in one feel swoop. Have the Silver Crusade take out the internal blight that is Maldris, and then essentially say, "our work takes us elsewhere", but we leave you with <Insert New Faction Name Here!>
This faction acts as the group that turns hearts and minds towards the Society, and makes sure that they don't fall down this path again, and again, and again, and again.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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And knowing Madris' sterling qualities, they would be in the perfect position to remove Madris and take over.My proposal would be to take out two factions that no longer are relevant in one feel swoop. Have the Silver Crusade take out the internal blight that is Maldris, and then essentially say, "our work takes us elsewhere", but we leave you with <Insert New Faction Name Here!>
This faction acts as the group that turns hearts and minds towards the Society, and makes sure that they don't fall down this path again, and again, and again, and again.
I still find it mildly amusing that the person who worked with a group of people that was trying to bring back one of the greatest scourges upon all of Golarion isn't as evil as the person who is pissed off that someone mind controlled them.
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That's nothing more than requesting an assassination. Using means justify ends arguments in the case of assassinations is not something nice people do.
Wanting you to kill an Aspis Consortium member who mind-controlled him and is actively blackmailing him is not nice, no, but it's hardly the most evil thing that a faction leader has done or asked members of their faction to do. There have been any number of faction missions asking members to kill someone for no other cause than the word of the leader that it needs to be done. Hell, most of my characters would be happy to kill the guy if you just started and ended with "This Aspis Consortium guy you're going to meet needs to be dead." Would that be evil? Perhaps, but given the propensity for members of that group to commit acts of evil themselves (slavery, mind control, blackmail, etc.), most of my characters would be willing to take a chance that they're doing the wrong thing.
EDIT: In case I may be giving the wrong impression that I think the world of Colson Maldris, I have to say I found the early Andoren faction missions to be some of the bloodthirstiest and most morally ambiguous of the ones I needed to complete (my -1 was Silver Crusade started just after it was introduced and I found myself getting a lot of Andoran missions).
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As the, I believe, current high ranking shadow lodge member, Venture Captain Mea Culpa would be more than happy to host all remaining and prospective shadow lodge members at her lodge on the moon.
"Youse not only ventoor cap'n still in Shadow Lodge. Me Ventoor Cap'n Mash! Me in Shadow Lodge since first join Society! Me still Shadow Lodge ferever!"
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As the, I believe, current high ranking shadow lodge member, Venture Captain Mea Culpa would be more than happy to host all remaining and prospective shadow lodge members at her lodge on the moon."Youse not only ventoor cap'n still in Shadow Lodge. Me Ventoor Cap'n Mash! Me in Shadow Lodge since first join Society! Me still Shadow Lodge ferever!"
"Yaay! Are you still doin what grand mister torch said and bein nice to all the other pathfinders and helpin them? Cuz that's what good adventure captins do."
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"Yaay! Are you still doin what grand mister torch said and bein nice to all the other pathfinders and helpin them? Cuz that's what good adventure captins do."As the, I believe, current high ranking shadow lodge member, Venture Captain Mea Culpa would be more than happy to host all remaining and prospective shadow lodge members at her lodge on the moon."Youse not only ventoor cap'n still in Shadow Lodge. Me Ventoor Cap'n Mash! Me in Shadow Lodge since first join Society! Me still Shadow Lodge ferever!"
"Zactly! That why me join Shadow Lodge. Me meet Torch on very first mishun, and he say watch out fer each other, so that what me do."
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"Yaay! Are you still doin what grand mister torch said and bein nice to all the other pathfinders and helpin them? Cuz that's what good adventure captins do."As the, I believe, current high ranking shadow lodge member, Venture Captain Mea Culpa would be more than happy to host all remaining and prospective shadow lodge members at her lodge on the moon."Youse not only ventoor cap'n still in Shadow Lodge. Me Ventoor Cap'n Mash! Me in Shadow Lodge since first join Society! Me still Shadow Lodge ferever!"
"Indeed, each of us does well to keep the name unsullied, in our own ways."
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I think my larger frustration with factions isn't that they are "broken" or don't work, but their storylines have become underwhelming.
I see things like the metaplot for the Scarab Sages right now and even the arc for recovering Zarta from being literally disappeared from the world/clearing her name....and what we've got going with Liberty's Edge, Sovereign Court, Etc etc seems paltry by comparison. I get excited when the Scarab Sage faction scenarios come out now and I'm careful to play them with a Scarab Sages PCs so I can really dig into "what happens next". I don't have that response to content for most other factions at this point.
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"Yaay! Are you still doin what grand mister torch said and bein nice to all the other pathfinders and helpin them? Cuz that's what good adventure captins do."As the, I believe, current high ranking shadow lodge member, Venture Captain Mea Culpa would be more than happy to host all remaining and prospective shadow lodge members at her lodge on the moon."Youse not only ventoor cap'n still in Shadow Lodge. Me Ventoor Cap'n Mash! Me in Shadow Lodge since first join Society! Me still Shadow Lodge ferever!""Indeed, each of us does well to keep the name unsullied, in our own ways."
Carry mine ever where I go.
Local 320.
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I think the difference between Colson Maldris and Zarta Dralneen is SUPER obvious.
Zarta is as advertised - ambitious and maybe just a bit evil.
The good major was supposed to the Chaotic Good guy and very often hes more like the Lawful Neutral guy, cloaked in the language of the Revolution. It's enough to make you want to go Galtan.
EDIT:
And for my money this is the reason why The Exchange is number 1. You want to make a profit? Let's make a friggin profit! Sailors and dockworkers and merchants and gamblers unite!
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I would call him CN at best... self-serving bastard!
The good major was supposed to the Chaotic Good guy and very often hes more like the Lawful Neutral guy, cloaked in the language of the Revolution. It's enough to make you want to go Galtan.
He's always been a good customer, though. Needs work on paying his debts on time. However, he always somehow makes up for it.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I would also like to see Maldris gone. I like the ideals of Liberty's Edge, but not the leadership.
I was so hopeful that he would be replaced. When I found out about it, I made a special effort to play my Liberty's Edge character in a certain scenario hoping that the reporting would have an effect. I haven't seen any yet.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I think my larger frustration with factions isn't that they are "broken" or don't work, but their storylines have become underwhelming.
I see things like the metaplot for the Scarab Sages right now and even the arc for recovering Zarta from being literally disappeared from the world/clearing her name....and what we've got going with Liberty's Edge, Sovereign Court, Etc etc seems paltry by comparison. I get excited when the Scarab Sage faction scenarios come out now and I'm careful to play them with a Scarab Sages PCs so I can really dig into "what happens next". I don't have that response to content for most other factions at this point.
I feel like outside of Liberty's Edge and Scarab Sages the plotlines are more coherent and entertaining than anything before.
Ongoing PlotDark Archive: Huh maybe that's why they disappeared her
Exchange: Who's in charge and whoops we almost caused a world war
Sovereign Court: Find the thieves who almost bankrupted an entire country
Silver Crusade: Fix Frankenstein's mess
Grand Lodge: Let's crack that rock and why the hell are MIBs now attacking us
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It could be interesting to see the 'breakdown' of the Exchange occur because of Tamran with the Ironfang Invasion happening in the background...
With the 'Merchants' going "Not cost effective, we're pulling out" and the "Quiet Market" going "We're not abandoning our families and our people!"
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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It could be interesting to see the 'breakdown' of the Exchange occur because of Tamran with the Ironfang Invasion happening in the background...
With the 'Merchants' going "Not cost effective, we're pulling out" and the "Quiet Market" going "We're not abandoning our families and our people!"
It's probably not going to happen as it's already a plotline to a scenario(s?). It's my favorite faction plotline just because it's so convoluted.
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It's probably not going to happen as it's already a plotline to a scenario(s?). It's my favorite faction plotline just because it's so convoluted.
It's my least favorite in a recent few scenarios because it's too convoluted and unclear, and at least in my case, I ended up not getting credit for either route because I was trying to reach a 'happy blend' of both -- which isn't indicated as a thing to avoid in any suggestions given.
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The faction reset in seasons 2,4, and 5 got rid of the few interesting and likeable Faction heads (al'Jakri, Torch, Karela, Amara Li) and left us with ones ranging from workmanlike (Valsin, al'Hakam) to boring (Ollystra, Morilla) to detestable (Maldris).
And for the hassle that they were (and they were, I'm not pretending that they were not), I miss the old-style Faction missions.
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While I agree that Captain Maldris is a self-serving hypocrite, he's definitely not the faction leader in contention for the worst person.
Wei Ji: I think one of the points of merging the two factions into one, was that it was one less faction to have to write and develop content for.
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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It's my least favorite in a recent few scenarios because it's too convoluted and unclear, and at least in my case, I ended up not getting credit for either route because I was trying to reach a 'happy blend' of both -- which isn't indicated as a thing to avoid in any suggestions given.
It's probably not going to happen as it's already a plotline to a scenario(s?). It's my favorite faction plotline just because it's so convoluted.
I'm curious how you managed that.
Personally, I like the Exchange for being a cooperation, not a perfect blend.
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I'm curious how you managed that.Personally, I like the Exchange for being a cooperation, not a perfect blend.
In the encounters and the like, managed to negotiate very well with one target, severely lean on another with suggestions of what a bit of ultra-violence might do to their bottom line, and started a very strong rumor-mill as to what happened to the end boss was a result of them trying to screw over the Exchange.
Unfortunately, because of the 'scattershot approach' and not doing *all of Column A* or *all of Column B* (which was not indicated in the briefing notes, to my recollection) which would have had a greater impact FOR the Exchange, there was apparently no gain for the Exchange, despite what we got done.
In addition, given that sort of approach, I foresee table disruption in the future if one member of the Exchange wants to do the 'Trade Merchant' route and the other wants to do 'Connected Family' route...
EDIT: On a completely different note, should also be noted that I was also at an exceptionally rare table of