Help me build my Gnomish Titan!


Advice

Sczarni

There's a character concept for a gnome "warrior of old" type character that I've been playing with in my mind for a while now. A fierce guardian of gnomish tradition, wielding a shiny greatsword and wearing golden full plate armor.

He would charge at enemies and parry their attacks, while staying uncannily agile for a gnome. His wit should match those of the most ingenious BBEG's. As a devout of both Abadar and Torag, anything evil would be quick to raise his ire.

I was thinking of at least taking 3 level of Weapon master Fighter to get up to speed with damage bonuses and get full plate proficiency, maybe a dip in Medium for more damage, and then fix the movement speed issue with a dip in something like cleric. Help me flesh out this concept!

Here are the rules:

  • Race: Gnome
  • Access to the Advanced weapon training feat
  • Able to wield an impressive 2-handed blade using strength
  • Able to comfortably wear heavy armor
  • Doesn't depend on spells (I'm looking at you, divine favor)
  • Movement speed on par with taller races without using a mount
  • A real powerhouse in melee that doesn't sacrifice a diverse skillset.

Feat ideas: Power attack, Steadfast personality, Breadth of experience, Gnome Weapon Focus

Any ideas? Thanks!


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Hm.

If you're going with a gnome who fights in the traditional gnomish way, I'd consider a Lucerne Hammer over a Greatsword, if only because gnomes seem to favor hammers and weird weapons over more conventional ones.

With that said, if you're going to dip into Weapon Master for 3 levels, why not make it 4? If you make it 4 you can then take the Advanced Weapon Training (Combat) feat. This can get you Versatile Training (letting you use your BAB in place of skill points), Weapon Specialist (to apply feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization to ALL the weapons within a given group, making you more versatile), or maybe Knockout Training if your campaign would benefit from taking enemies alive.

After that, I'd seriously consider the merits of taking Paladin levels. My reasoning is this: you're a gnome. You have a penalty to strength, but you have a bonus to Charisma. Paladins make great use of that Charisma to murder stuff. This also gets you spellcasting.

If not Paladin, consider Cavalier or the Avenger Vigilante. Avenger Vigilantes are just packed with feats and cool abilities, and Cavaliers are solid with good skill selection and can make your Charisma work for you via Challenge-related abilities.

For some more versatility at level 1, consider the following racial traits:

Quote:

Fey Magic (2 RP):

The character has a mystic connection to one terrain type, selected from the ranger's favored terrain list. The character selects three 0-level druid spells and one 1st-level druid spell. If the character has a Charisma score of 11 or higher, when in the selected terrain, she gains these spells as spell-like abilities that can be cast once per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user's character level. The DC for the spell-like abilities is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the user's Charisma modifier. These spells are treated as being from a fey source for the purposes of the druid's resist nature's lure class feature and similar abilities. This trait replaces obsessive.

Faerie Dragon Magic (2 RP):

Some gnomes ally with capricious faerie dragons or share a supernatural kinship with these enigmatic creatures. Gnomes with this trait add 1 to the DCs of saves against the illusion spells they cast. Additionally, a gnome with a Charisma score of 11 or higher can use each of the following spell-like abilities once per day: ghost sound, grease, and silent image. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome’s character level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the gnome’s Charisma modifier. This trait replaces gnome magic.

Grease AND Silent Image from one trait? Another trait that lets you choose ANY 1st level druid spell you want? This is why you play a gnome: lots of utility right from the start. Having three first level SLAs will make your friends at the table ask just what class you're playing.

And if you want more utility outside of combat, the following racial traits are decent options: Gift of Tongues, Explorer, and Darkvision.

Sczarni

Even though both paladin and fighter are cool from an RP perspective, I'm pretty sure that only 2 skills points per level will eventually start to bother me. Gnomes don't have access to nifty things like Skilled (Human race trait)..


Yes, but you're dipping 3 levels into Fighter anyway. Make it 4 and reap the awesome benefits of Advanced Weapon Training as a feat. Seriously.

And if you don't want that few skill points, consider Vigilante afterwards. It gets bonus feats every second level like a Fighter, gets a double identity you can use, gets Social Talents, 6 skill points a level... It's not bad. It's pretty good, actually. And it's full BAB if you go Avenger, which you should. Otherwise, consider taking an archetype with spellcasting, like the Cabalist or Warlock.

Alternatively, you could go Ranger with the Two-Handed Weapon Style. Also 6 skill points, gets 4th level spellcasting, Favored Enemy, etc. Heck, you could choose Divine Tracker with a fitting deity to get some handy blessings from the Warpriest, too.

And again, Cavalier works fine. 4 skill points a level, bonus temawork feats, an animal companion that levels with you (and you can probably convince your GM to let you choose a non-standard one to ride), some flavorful order abilities... No spellcasting, though.

Finally, there's always the Bard. I'd consider the base bard, the Archaelogist, or MAYBE the Archivist for your concept. Base Bard = effective at boosting yourself and the whole party with damage and attack, Archivist = AC and attack instead, focused around knowledge skills, and Archaelogist = you focus on bolstering yourself and not your allies, but hey: you can start your version of Inspire Courage as a swift action. And after 4 levels of Bard you'll have access to Saving Finale, Gallant Inspiration, and Heroism - all of which are seriously great buffs.

You have TONS of options is what it comes down to.

Dark Archive

I don't see how cleric will allow you to fix the movement speed issue of wearing heavy armor with an archetype that swaps out armor training.
If it's important to you, you might be better served by staying vanilla fighter. Since the weapon and armor master handbooks have come out, both weapon training and armor training are a lot stronger. You can use either (or both) to gain the skills you're desiring of without giving up much of anything. You still get to move faster in medium/heavy armor at levels 3 and 7 while getting cool bonuses.

Since this sounds like a bold character, Steadfast Slayer could be a strong feat. If you're the only one threatening a foe, when you hit them with a 2-hander, you deal +2damage for each size category the foe is larger than you. That's as strong as weapon specialization most of the time, and stronger a lot of the time.

Cut from the air, smash from the air, and spellcut can all be fantastic feats as well. You can use AoOs to try and parry ranged attacks, boulders, scorching rays, and once per round use your full BAB in place of saving throws (with some restrictions).


Here is an idea, it doesn't fulfill all your requirement but I think its a fun (but cheesed haha) build, but for gnomes we do whatever it takes right.

Here is what doesn't tick your boxes.

*You are dependent on spells but not divine favor...
*You don't have access to advance weapon training feat.

I believe otherwise it ticks all your boxes.

A gnome hunter without an animal companion, will let you have the animal focus always active giving you the animal focus stag for a permament +5 movement and at level 8 a permanent +10 movement, In addition think you get the floating personal animal focus to str in minutes per day for a swift action for whenever you need it.

Hunter has martial profiency and while you are not obliged to use it lead blades will give you big boy oomph whenever you need it.

And here enters the spell dependency, the awesome AC and damage. At level 7 hunters get level 3 ranger spells. Instant enemy humanoid (giant)... With a one level dip in ranger you get favored enemy humanoid giant and If you haven't traded away the gnomish defensive trait and you ve taken the skill earth child style you suddenly get +6 to AC to that target. If didn't take that feat it's style a nice +4

By then you can also afford a bane weapon I guess, I'm not very good with wealth/level, but from what I read bane is the cheapest weapon enchantment.
that instant enemy triggers. You have + 2 hit from favored enemy +3 to hit from bane, and for damage you have +2 dam from FE +3 from bane +2 D6 (average) 7=+12 damage without power attack
If you go invest in IUS and ascetic style and choose something like a sansekuton you can add wisdom to damage on top the above, having two stats to boost damage is better than one.

After that you can switch to ranger for full bab and more favored enemy levels or whatever strikes your fancy


2 levels in hellknight would let you run around in heavy armor with only opportunity cost

Sczarni

What do you guys think about dipping swashbuckler or monk? (After 3-5 levels of vanilla fighter)


A swashbuckler really wants to use a one-handed piercing weapon so they can regain panache. I guess you could use something like a heavy pick one-handed or two-handed as necessary, it's the heaviest-looking such weapon I can think of.

A monk dip ... maybe? The heavy armor would rule out most archetypes but I guess you could do master of many styles for smashing style, charging stag style or something.

Sczarni

Isnt a gnome hooked hammer a one handed piercing weapon as well when wielded one-handed?


How would you wield it one-handed? It's a two-handed weapon. I don't think being a double weapon makes it a light or one-handed weapon as swashbuckler class features are concerned.

How much are you attached to those two deities though? If you follow Shelyn the Bladed Brush feat could help you out.


I think there's the daring champion cavalier which might give opportune parry and reporters, and doesn't have to be dexterity based.

Sczarni

@avr: After reading up on it on the forum I think you are correct here. Sad panda :(

@MageHunter: Daring champion prohibits getting Opportune Parry & Riposte, alas.

Seems like I'm still stuck in the skills department, going 5 levels of vanilla fighter with just 2 skills/level seems appalling.. I want to be able to roll a decent diplomacy and have some knowledges I can rely on.


Carla the Profane wrote:

@avr: After reading up on it on the forum I think you are correct here. Sad panda :(

@MageHunter: Daring champion prohibits getting Opportune Parry & Riposte, alas.

Seems like I'm still stuck in the skills department, going 5 levels of vanilla fighter with just 2 skills/level seems appalling.. I want to be able to roll a decent diplomacy and have some knowledges I can rely on.

My advice:

Take Lore Warden for 5 levels. That gives you an effective 4 skill points per level if you like INT skills. Then go straight Paladin, with Paladin as your Favored Class, and use your FCB to get +1 skill point per paladin level. If you still want more skill points, have 12 INT, dump WIS.


I think the swordplay style chain lets you parry attacks with two-handed weapons.

Sczarni

Current build:

Doro Titus
Gnome Swashbuckler 1 / Fighter (Weapon master 4) / Medium 1 / Hellknight 2 / Cleric (Crusader) 1 / Ranger 2
Deity: Abadar

1[swashbuckler][bonus feat]Weapon finesse, Power attack
2[fighter][bonus feat] Combat reflexes
3[medium] Spirit focus: Champion
4[fighter][bonus feat] +1 STR, Step up
5[fighter] Breadth of experience
6[fighter][bonus feat] Advanced weapon training: Weapon focus, Gnome weapon focus, Weapon specialization
7[hellknight] Weapon versatility
8[hellknight] +1 STR
9[medium] Two-weapon fighting
10[medium]
11[medium] Steadfast personality

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