Need a bit of help here if people don't mind. Context time;
A friend invited me to a campaign. It's the Jade Regent adventure path. The group likes it but problem is they really don't have a front line. Best the group has is this weird Tengu Paladin Monk class. So they could use a decent melee guy.
Here's the twist; when I was talking to another friend, he told me about this build a power gamer(or at least good at building characters) knew. Sword Saint(Samurai) + Barbarian. Idea seems to be to use Sword Saint's Iaijutsu Strike on the biggest thing on the board and combine that with Rage. Or just use Rage afterward to start doing damage. Then you combine this with Samurai's Resolve to manage Rage's drawbacks.
Character wise, I actually like this. The story writes itself here. I'm iffy on a few things though.
1) Will this combo do decent enough damage to draw attention?
2) God won't this outright tank my AC anyway?
3) Can I even Challenge and Rage at the same time?
4) What do you think a good class split would be for this? I'm leaning on Barbarian to 2 for a Rage Power and Uncanny Dodge.
5) Should I scrap this and just roll Fighter?
Problem I can see with the strike is you're getting sneak attack damage (which isn't bad) but as a full round action... which is really bad. You cannot make a second attack which is OK until level 6 but you can't move either I would leave it.
What is your concept for the character?
Iaijutsu strike is both hard to use and not terribly effective. To use it you need to start adjacent or at least within a 5' step of an enemy with your weapon sheathed (so you probably didn't make an attack the previous round when you closed in). Then you make a single attack rather than a full attack, albeit with a moderate damage bonus (less than sneak attack).
IMO:
1) No.
2) Yes.
3) Yes, actually.
4) I recommend not doing this.
5) Personally I strongly dislike playing the fighter class (you can get the same flavour & much of the same effect from slayer etc.), but it would work better than the suggested combo.
Rage makes anything using a two handed weapon have enough damage. Just be sure to have the extra rage feat.
I'd go normal samurai, sword saint isn't good.
If you go urban rager, savage technologist, or Dreadnought that don't drop AC when raging (savage technologist actually raises AC!) then your AC doesn't tank for that, and your AC is only dropped for your non-challenged target, so it's not going to be penalized for the guy you're fighting.
though if you really want to play the risky game, go order of the flame and normal barb and have all the AC penalties!
yes you can challenge and rage.
Personally I'd say just barb 1 as your first level. Getting a rage power that doesn't scale just doesn't seem that great to me personally.
Level would be nice too...Something to consider might be a Arcane bloodrager. By level 8 he would be pretty frighting..just imagining raging while having displacement active...or if you prefer haste maybe just mirror image..he would do some healthy damage and be able to be take the hits
@ekibus - Well that's just it I don't have one unless I go with this build. Other than "Big tough guy" but that seems mundane. Haven't given thought to another character as of yet. As I said is combo writes itself. Samurai with Ronin Order, fell from grace/his order cause he has some rage that manifests in battle. There's character there. And I tend to play for characters more but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot completely. I am willing to listen to build ideas and character suggestions though. Party is Good/Neutral leaning though.
@Chess pwn - I don't think I can run Savage Technologist. It's Jade Regent so I don't think the tech level will be that high(Or good enough to make use of Guns)
Also it's the Dodge I would like at level 2. There's also a few Rage Powers that don't scale period. Smasher, No Escape, Strength Surge to name a few(Unsure of they are good but No Escape and Surge seem okay for non scaling)
@ekibus - Right level. I believe DM said I'll start around level 6.
This doesn't sound like the most amazing build in the world and you said you don't have a concept really so I think I'm just gonna chuck out som front line suggestions.
Pouncing barbarian
Vivisectionist Alchemist
Charging Cavalier
Wild shaping Druid with a tiger (this fully comes online at level 7 so would be nice for you)
Sythesist summoner (probably banned)
Any of those can be built to do earth shattering damage for slightly odder builds
An earth/water kineticist can make a very effective reach tank whilst still doing impressive damage
I recently discussed a Sorc/Barb/Dragon disciple/Eldritch Knight
Helpful Halflings can make some good body guard builds with various classes but I'm not sure their damage is great.
Swashbucklers can get Dex to damage at LV1 and build into Dex tanks.
I just put together a brawler/Devoted muse character that was basically a full bab frontline fighter who could debuff enemies and buff her whole party with feinting. (This one would work nicely in a team with the their paladin)
Earth breaker wielding Occultist focused on transmutation and abjuration. (I made one for a friend recently at level 6) starting with 18 STR I think by your level he could fairly reliably do 3D6+17 with reach 10 and +12 to hit.
Any of those grab you and the folks on these forums can help ya make one :P
The savage barbarian is just for a dip for the good rage. But it was just given as an option for getting rage with no AC penalty.
A barb dip into samurai works fine. If you want to play it, do. It'll be a good damage dealing frontline character. So if you want it say so and get advice for it, or say you're open to character ideas and you'll get question asking you what you want to do with your character.
Jade Regent could be a perfect place to create a chaos-loving, 9-ring flailing Guided Hand Sacred Fist of Hei-Feng, Duke of Thunder...
Dual Talent Human: 14/16STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 12INT, 16/18WIS, 7CHA.
Destruction and Air Blessings.
Traits: Fate's Favored, Wayang Spellhunter: Sanctuary
You take Martial Weapon Proficiency with 9-ring at 1, and then Channel Smite and Guided Hand by 7 (which means that you get WIS to attack just as WIS is going to start pulling way ahead). You've got Divine Favor (+Fate's Favored) and Bull's Strength as swift-buffing options, so you should have no issues until then. Damage-wise, spell buffs, two-handed Power Attack, and Destruction Blessing amplify with flurry to do really mean damage. Quicken Blessing with the Soaring Assault Air Blessing gives you the ability to start flying with a swift-action (and major bonus charge damage).
High-WIS Sacred Fist has very strong AC - by 8 you've got fullplate-level AC if you have a +4 Headband, and you can buy Bracers of Armor for the same price as enchanting armor. Beyond their normal defenses though, a high-WIS Sacred Fist can use Fervor to swift-cast Persistent Sanctuary on themselves, which is just hilariously strong defense - charge in, strike, then swift-sanctuary and watch attacks and even spells bounce off until you're ready to flurry. Other gems include Aura of Doom and Instrument of Agony. And of course, you can swift-cast heals and cures on yourself.
And you can call your Hei-Feng-inspired 9-ring broadsword "Nine Crows", eventually learning to make Stunning Fist attacks through it with crushing DCs.
Without giving away too many spoilers if you are playing Jade Regent, build a katana wielding character and you will not be sorry.
@Chromantic Durgon <3
See the thing is I don't want to break the game(Though if I did I'd roll Wizard or Spellcaster). Game's being run by a friend of mine and I don't want to show up with something that will not only give him problems to build around but also show up the other players/characters.
@Badbird
Same problem as above. I'm not looking to break the game. I was just told "Could use a frontliner" and also told this odd build that I wanted to get some advice on. Since it seems bad, I'd like to see what other ideas could work. Not what's busted or "Here play this" with a sheet given to me. Advice and suggestions, not "Do this". And you probably didn't mean for it to sound like that but to me it did.
That and well I'm fairly new to expanded stuff in pathfinder. I have no idea how to read what you put down. What class is that? Warpriest I think? I don't have experience with the hybrids.
As for the character idea, I have no idea about the setting other than it's Asian themed. I thought about playing an outcast samurai who is such because of their orc rage got them kicked out, so signs up on this adventure to A)Restore Honor or B)Understand the other side of the family(Orc/Half Orc).
That and maybe influenced by Zengar Zombolt from Super Robot Wars games. A guy who cleaves everything in twain with a massive sword.
your barb samurai isn't a bad build. It's just not the most optimized thing alive. If you want a front liner it will serve you well. If you're worried about AC there are barb archetypes that don't drop AC. Wearing full plate give lots of AC.
@Badbird
Same problem as above. I'm not looking to break the game. I was just told "Could use a frontliner" and also told this odd build that I wanted to get some advice on. Since it seems bad, I'd like to see what other ideas could work. Not what's busted or "Here play this" with a sheet given to me. Advice and suggestions, not "Do this". And you probably didn't mean for it to sound like that but to me it did.
Apologies if it came across as 'do this'; I just posted it as an example of some interesting stuff you can do with a Sacred Fist (Warpriest Archetype), which many people tend to think of as a generally weak class that uses fists, but which has tons of potential to do fun and powerful things. Sacred Fist of Shizuru wielding a katana or Sacred Fist of Hei-Feng wielding a 9-ring are perfect for eastern flavor; classic Asian weapons wielded by characters that are holy-warrior-monks.
If you want to be optimized in a constructive way for the group, you could look at an Order of the Dragon Samurai who uses the 'Strategy' ability at level 8. Strategy can let you and all your allies move as an immediate action, and you can "Ready an Action" to use Strategy at just the right moment. Facing a deadly Wizard? Strategy gives the party a chance to jump them. Facing a huge kill-crazy monster? Ready Strategy so that as the monster is moving into position to attack an ally, the threatened ally can back away (or be granted an AC bonus if they prefer) while the party circles into position to full-attack.
You'll do less attacking yourself - though being clever about readying Strategy can let you "pounce" with a full attack on your second turn - but you empower your allies with strong tactics. They'll probably love the opportunities you give them, and you might come across as a 'mastermind' in the best possible sense.
The Order of the Dragon Challenge also grants a very handy attack bonus to everyone including you when you're threatening your Challenge target. It's a great theme for a Samurai looking to regain their honor by dedicating themselves to the common cause.
I played with someone who used the iaijutsu strike. Early on it was ok... he would move up to the enemy, get smacked, use his cool ability and if it hit, most things died. But he also missed sometimes and resulted in wasting 2 rounds doing nothing... After level 6 though, it really begins to fall off and it was only mediocre at best anyway. Maybe it would work better if he had a secondary weapon he charged in with and then dropped to do his iaijutsu strike in that second round?
Otherwise, playing a frontliner can be done in SO many different ways. Staying focused on a Feudal Japanese theme here are some I would be excited to play in Jade Regent: Sohei Monk, Kensai Magus, Unbreakable Fighter with focus on Stalwart featline for DR (roleplay as a Samurai), a Katana focused Samurai (I wouldn't dip into barb personally but it wouldn't be bad either), Sacred Fist Warpriest, a few others.
If I were to stick with your thoughts of a fallen samurai though, I would stick with a straight samurai. Possibly start off as a Ronin, but work with your GM on finding a way back into an order such as Dragon (Working with a team), Sword (Become devoted to certain special sword [unless another character already claimed it]), or even Cockatrice (Inner darkness comes from trying to restrain your pride. Accepting your pride and pushing yourself to ever greatness allows you to advance). I just don't know if I could quite roleplay the idea of being a Ronin while also trying to be a part of a group that is traveling back to the region I was outcast from. I could roleplay someone who was outcast but then finds inspiration to return home and renew his honor. The build would be very basic 2H fighter build with the couple of additional benefits from being a Samurai rather than a fighter.