Feral focus+wild shape

[Riccardo Olivieri]

Hello to everyone! I have a question about the feral hunter archetype: can a feral hunter stay contemporary in feral focus and wild shape? Thanks in advance:)

[James Risner]

Quote the rules text

[Riccardo Olivieri]

Yeah, sorry.

Quote:

Feral Focus (Su)

At 1st level, a feral hunter gains a limited ability to change her shape into hybrid animal forms. This functions as the animal focus class feature, except that the hunter always applies the animal aspect to herself, and there is no limit to this ability's duration. She can end this ability as a free action.

When a feral hunter uses this ability, her body takes on cosmetic aspects of an animal, such as furry skin, longer nails, elongated teeth, and oddly colored eyes; these changes do not grant her any abilities other than what is stated in the animal focus, and end when she takes on a different aspect or ends the ability. This physical change is a polymorph effect, though the effects of the animal focus are not.

This ability alters animal focus and replaces the hunter tactics and speak with master class abilities.

[Poison Dusk]

I would say no, RAW, as you can't be under the effect of two polymorph effects at the same time. However, I would allow it as it is only the physical part that is polymorph. Also, what's the point if you can't use both?

[Chess Pwn]

can he have them both active? Yes. You don't get the cosmetic changes that feral focus normally gives, but you do get the mechanical boosts.

[James Risner]

You can not gain any benefits of one polymorph if you gain the benefits of another.

So pick one.

[Lorewalker]

Chess Pwn wrote:

can he have them both active? Yes. You don't get the cosmetic changes that feral focus normally gives, but you do get the mechanical boosts.

This.

There is a reason that feral focus specifically notes that the mechanical benefit is not a polymorph effect. Making it fairly clear that the intention is for it to stack with wild shape. Especially since you get wild shape as part of the archetype which you get at 4th level. Feral focus is split into two effects, only one of which is a polymorph effect.

Feral Focus wrote:

"When a feral hunter uses this ability, her body takes on cosmetic aspects of an animal, such as furry skin, longer nails, elongated teeth, and oddly colored eyes; these changes do not grant her any abilities other than what is stated in the animal focus, and end when she takes on a different aspect or ends the ability. This physical change is a polymorph effect, though the effects of the animal focus are not."

[James Risner]

That last line is the important bit. You get the focus bits and the body changes don't stack with another polymorph.

There have been examples of very different things described as not stacking:
Slow / Haste
Some threat increases don't stack with crit multipliers
All polymorph don't stack
Size increases
Etc

[Riccardo Olivieri]

Thanks for your answers! There is a FAQ that explains if only the physical change of feral focus is a polymorph effect?

[Rikkan]

Poison Dusk wrote:

I would say no, RAW, as you can't be under the effect of two polymorph effects at the same time. However, I would allow it as it is only the physical part that is polymorph. Also, what's the point if you can't use both?

Technically, if I'm allowed to be very pedantic, no that is not RAW. The rules only state that you can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time.

Though I do think (and every table will rule it this way) that they meant to include polymorph effects, but by strict RAW they didn't.

[James Risner]

Many FAQ make it abundantly clear that when is says spells in the combining magical effects section it counts even mundane extraordinary effects.

So your pedantic view isn't RAW.

[Rikkan]

Oh? I've never seen that, can you quote / link those FAQ which state that general case?

[James Risner]

All specific, and several of them. So no I can't quote you a general written rule. Call it an unwritten rule if you like. The stacking rules in combining magical effects are used to block double Cha to things, stacking of a spell and a feat (aspect of the falcon), and a whole list of other things with no care to them both not being spells.

[Lorewalker]

James Risner wrote:

All specific, and several of them. So no I can't quote you a general written rule. Call it an unwritten rule if you like. The stacking rules in combining magical effects are used to block double Cha to things, stacking of a spell and a feat (aspect of the falcon), and a whole list of other things with no care to them both not being spells.

You can include the Impact enchantment and the Lead Blades spell not stacking.