I am trying to figure out how you would craft an encounter involving a stampede of say 40-100 large herd animals.
I'm thinking some sort of adaption of the swarm rules would make the most sense. It would just sweep through the area doing damage to anything in its path.
Has anyone crafted or come up with rules for something like this?
Maybe look at it more as a story/hazard type encounter?
Well for the specific encounter I am crafting it will be a gully some 50' across and 150' long. There are two 15' escarpments on the right and left side. There is a broken statue on top of one of the ridges with pieces of it scattered about the gully floor. The party will most likely stop to investigate and while doing so will hear the stampede coming.
Once the stampede of horses( in this case) appears they will have about a round to react before the horses come through the gully at a full run.
So i'm thinking the horses would work as a swarm doing x damage to anyone caught in their path. Perhaps with a trip chance to knock the victim prone which would then cause trample damage.
I would assume a swarm of large creatures with the trample attack, indeed
The stampede monster special ability that herd animals possess doesn't actually work (in a turn-based game, you can't make a trample attack while remaining adjacent to other creatures doing the same thing). It needs to be a hazard to work, but should ultimately work the same way.
Horses don't have a natural trample attack anyway, or the stampede ability, but I'd still assume it as area damage while the 'stampede' lasts.
For Light Horses: 2d6+4 dmg/round, DC 14 Reflex save halves this damage.
For Heavy Horses: 2d6+7 dmg/round, DC 16 Reflex save halves this damage.
Other possible house rules to impose:
-10 on all sound based Perception checks?
+4 to DC on all acrobatics checks to maintain balance near and around the stampede?
Natural 1 on Reflex save results in the character also being carried a ways by the horses (maybe 10 ft.)?
A DC 25 Intimidate check causes the horses to move around a character in a 5 ft. radius?
A physical barrier that gets created will cause the horses to veer off, with a cone shaped space behind the barrier being "safe"?
Also, I would assume the horses are packed close together, at once squeezing and moving at a full run (x3 speed as 1 round action.) With only 100 animals, the entire herd, running in a mass 10 horses wide, would clear through in a two rounds (moving at a rate of 150 ft./round, and the entire herd taking up 200 ft. in length. if they are only squeezing shoulder to shoulder.)
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Perhaps [2d4x2] Gargantuan Swarms of horses that take up 20x15 spaces using Trample fast approaching in [2d4] "waves."
Trample (Ex) As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature's slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature's trample attack is 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + creature's Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.
On the surprise round, players have an option to climb to safety, or cast fly or levitate or jump (or other evasive spell), or hide behind something (granting them cover).
Then, each round one "wave" comes. Since the width of the gully is 50' across and the swarms take up 20' width each, there happens to be two (randomly determined) "safe spots" each round (If you wanted to game this, you could have the PC make a Perception check to see where next rounds "safe spot" will be). And so, the PCs must play the avoidance game until the stampede passes.
The stampede monster special ability that herd animals possess doesn't actually work (in a turn-based game, you can't make a trample attack while remaining adjacent to other creatures doing the same thing). It needs to be a hazard to work, but should ultimately work the same way.
Most GMs have monsters with the same stats go at the same time. Though technically a house rule, it is so widespread that it could be considered the rules as intended. This ability may well be further evidence that this is the case.
Acting at the same initiative count is not the same thing as acting at the same time. If several creatures use the trample ability at the same time, how does the player decide which creature to attack with his attack of opportunity? The turn-based system is written to prevent cases like that.
This is a pet peeve of mine, but it amazes me how many abilities are written ignoring such a fundamental principle of this game.
Acting at the same initiative count is not the same thing as acting at the same time. If several creatures use the trample ability at the same time, how does the player decide which creature to attack with his attack of opportunity? The turn-based system is written to prevent cases like that.
This is a pet peeve of mine, but it amazes me how many abilities are written ignoring such a fundamental principle of this game.
Wouldn't the player simply pick a target to attack like, you know, always?
Clearly you assume that acting at the same time/initiative count isn't rules as intended already, despite several rules and abilities that suggest otherwise.
I'd argue that the fundamental principle you refer to doesn't really exist. The turn-based system is written to make the game easier to manage, not to slow things down and make situations harder to adjudicate.
In short, I think you're overthinking it.
This is a rules debate that really doesn't belong here (and one which I'm not exactly enthusiastic to have, to be honest).
If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll to determine which one of them goes before the other.
That doesn't slow the game down, it's a fundamental principle that ensures that the game works. I'm aware that many GMs (me included) let groups of monsters act at the same initiative count, but they would still have to resolve each creature's action individually. It matters for movement, positioning, disrupting actions (attacks of opportunity, readied actions), and many other effects that could be triggered (spell effects, traps, etc.).
I have a monk character who could totally trip one of the stampeding creatures (likely the one with a clear charge lane) and reposition it into the way of another stampeding creature (via Ki Throw). Alternatively, my character could have been overrun by a stampeding creature and gained the prone condition, suffering a penalty on subsequent attacks of opportunity (from Combat Reflexes) against the other stampeding creatures (which provoque for leaving my threatened squares). To resolve my actions, it is very important to observe the turn order.
For those who might be interested here is what I went with.
I used a modified version of the swarm rules:
Horse Stampede:
Hp( 3 Hp per creature)
Hp-300 - 100 horses
AC-10
Creatures standing in a square over which the stampede passes suffer 6d4+8 points of damage and may make a Reflex save DC-17 for ½ damage.
Those that fail their save are subjected to a Trip attempt with a CMB of +10. Those tripped by the stampede suffer an additional 8d4+10pts of damage.
The horses are only interested in fleeing. If the swarm loses ½ its hp it will break up into individual horses that do their best to move away from obvious threats.
Single targeted attacks can only inflict damage to the swarm up to the max hp of a single horse (18hp)
The swarm is Immune to critical hits.
I am planning on roughly 45' wide by 120' long. I haven't set a specific movement rate. Though I can just reference normal horse speed if needed.
I'd write it up as a hazard, rather than as a combat encounter.
This is off-the cuff, and isn't really thought through too far but...
Anyone in the area of the sampede takes some amount of damage per round and will get knocked prone. A successful Reflex save each round halves the damage and prevents getting knocked down. prone creatures have a -4 on the Reflex save. Characters in the area of the stampede move at one-quarter speed and cannot run or charge. Casting spells within a stampede requires a concentration check as per a swarm.
A successful Wild Empathy or Handle Animal check grants a bonus to the Reflex save for 1 round and increases movement to half speed for that round.
The DCs and damage damage done depend on the nature of the creatures stampeding.
In this case "My Self" this is for a 5th-6th level party.
It is intended as the opener of the encounter with the creature that is just around the bend and had attacked the herd.
It's the first and only major encounter for the day, so the party will be at full resource capacity.
Horse movement speed is 50' so they will be moving at 200' (full run)
The encounter takes place in a 150 foot long gully between two 15' tall cliffs spaced roughly 45' apart. (So the stampede will fill the gully)
There is a broken statue at the top of one of the cliffs, pieces have tumbled down into the gully. One of them is large enough for a single person to hide behind. (I'll place it randomly on the map)
The party is:
Human cavalier in heavy armor, so Mv-20', Full run 60' Horrible climb skills so depending on where he is in the gully when the stampede starts and where his own horse is will probably decide if he escapes or takes horse to the face.
1/2 Elf Paladin - MV-30' Full run 90' Same boat as the Cavalier.
Petal(homebrew plant/fey race) Oracle - Has Fly 30' as a movement so she will probably just fly up and out of the way if she isn't already.
Human Wizard: not sure what he will do, new character for the player and it will be the first encounter the pc will be having.
Human Ranger: Usually she just shoots things with a bow.. so probably she will try to run or climb the cliff.
Essentially the encounter will scatter the pcs on the play mat for when the main opponent engages.
Have you seen the Troop rules? Those might be helpful.