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I have an investigator with a keen rapier, gloves of marking, sickening strike. It gets going later than some of the other options, but at level 7 you get a crit around when hasted sicken first, then shaken, and give +2 attack and damage.
-4 to attacks -2 to damage -4 to all saves zero actions used.
You do give up crit damage though.
Bounty hunter slayer is the king of melee debuffers. You get to Damage them AND sicken/blind/entangle them, hell yea man. My build is also going down the signature skill (intimidate) rout.
Yeah your blind, deaf, entangled And I have 3 chances to intimidate you thanks to cronugen smash, all of which will make you either A: Run for your life or B: Cower helplessly.
Eldritch guardian fighters are fairly good. Get a mauler familiar that shares all your combat feats, and then have two characters to pull off any combat feat based debuffs.
Dirty tricks are particularly nasty for that. By around level 12, you could take out a character a round, completely leaving them unable to perform meaningful actions for the fight.
This is because dirty trick master lets you worsen the condition caused by another dirty trick; sickened to nauseated removes standard actions... which is what you need to remove dirty tricks after greater dirty trick. Just gang up on a character and do the old one-two until they want to throw up their lunch. Then they can't attack, cast spells (usually; quickened still works... but that is still 4 spell levels lower than normal)... and this lasts for 1d4 rounds. That can be long enough for most fights. You can basically forget about that enemy at that point to either go and cripple others or just finish off the remaining enemies.
Other advantages of eldritch guardian: some team work feats are also combat feats. So that one for flanking is always good. And at level 10, you can grab coordinated charge... which is a pseudo pounce. Send your familiar to pounce, and then follow suit with an immediate action. That lets you move next to your target outside of your turn, and thus you might be in full attack range when your turn comes around. Great for damage.
I second Bounty Hunter Slayer. Two weapon fighting gives you double the chances to land a Dirty Trick (or a different one). Full BAB makes it more likely to land the tricks. In addition to Dirty Trick, the Killing Flourish feat allows you to intimidate multiple enemies better than Dervish Dance. And if you thrown in a few levels of Thug Rogue, you can enhance your intimidate and make them sickened too.
The shtick of the bounty hunter is that when they could get sneak attack DMG on an attack they can trade it out for a dirty trick attempt. So really 3-4 levels are all we need. After that we go into fighter (The build is pretty feat intensive)
You can pick other classes but mind that you'll have enough feats and accuracy. In the end the progression should look like this.
Stats:
STR:17 (+2 Racial here for 19)
Dex:10
Con:16
Int:11
Wis:8 (Lil low but the trait + tattoos should more than compensate, if human just siphon con)
Cha:14
1st level: A level of slayer, power attack and a high strength are what where looking for here. half orc is my favorite starting race (With the old fates favored sacred tattoo trick) but human may work better if you dont mind getting good at intimidate in a different way.
2nd level: Slayer talant into rogue talent into combat feat, make it Dirty fighter. That's it for this level.
3rd level: Improved dirty trick
4th level: Slayer talant, I like to take blood reader. Ability bonus goes into STR
5th level: start taking fighter levelthhere. Signature skill (intimidate) and iron hide (Dodge if human, changeable really I just like the extra protection)
6th level: Cornogen smash! Hell yea!
7th level: Aaaaw yea greater dirty trick
8th level: nothing really amazing from here on, just take what feels right. Heck you could even go out of fighter into something more fun. (My favorite is brawler)
And there you go! It doesn't play to differently from you standard bruiser until the dirty trick come online. Just try to get that first dirty trick off to blind them then sneak attack/dirty trick away.
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I have an investigator with a keen rapier, gloves of marking, sickening strike. It gets going later than some of the other options, but at level 7 you get a crit around when hasted sicken first, then shaken, and give +2 attack and damage.
-4 to attacks -2 to damage -4 to all saves zero actions used.
You do give up crit damage though.
You can do the same better (without giving up crit damage) with Enforcer and a Merciful weapon (or another way to deal nonlethal).
That combo lets you basically do this to every creature you ever hit, for minimal resource investment.
Dirty Trick stuff is likely better for debiuffing, mind you, but this version does do full normal damage on top of its debuffs.
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I have an investigator with a keen rapier, gloves of marking, sickening strike. It gets going later than some of the other options, but at level 7 you get a crit around when hasted sicken first, then shaken, and give +2 attack and damage.
-4 to attacks -2 to damage -4 to all saves zero actions used.
You do give up crit damage though.
You can do the same better (without giving up crit damage) with Enforcer and a Merciful weapon (or another way to deal nonlethal).
That combo lets you basically do this to every creature you ever hit, for minimal resource investment.
Dirty Trick stuff is likely better for debiuffing, mind you, but this version does do full normal damage on top of its debuffs.
I like free bonus to attack and damage for the whole team. Enforcer is good but investigators can be feat starved and have a lot of competing weapon enchantments.
I like to do builds with Intimidate and Sickened.
Common routes to cause shaken via intimidation include Cornugon Smash and Hurtful with a Cruel Weapon. The other is Bludgeoner with Enforcer, then Hurtful with a Cruel Weapon.
If you can cast Arcane Spell you can grab Arcane Strike and Riving Strike. This works well with the Enforcer route, and doesn't work with Cornugon Smash because of the need for Swift Actions. However, it can work for a Bloodrager who can grab Blooded Arcane Strike.
I'm playing a Tyrant Antipaladin who is doing the Cornugon Smash route, and between causing Shaken, then Sickened, the aura that causes a -2 to saves I can cause a -6 penalty to saves. And then follow it up with the Cursed cruelty, which I apply using a conductive weapon. And, in case you're wondering Tyrant Antipaladin works just fine since I'm Lawful Evil.
Noticed now, if i'm not missing something, that for the dirty trick, you need even the combat expertise feat, and Int 13, so need to mix up things a bit. So if we stay with slayer bounty hunter it wuold become:
1) combat expertise, skill focus
3) improved dirty trick
4) slayer talent into combat feat power attack
5) signature skill intimidate
level 7 and 9 conugon smash and greater dirty trick in interchanable orderIf we mix in the brawler instead we could go:
1) brawler, power attack and skill focus
2) slayer
3) slayer combat expertise
4) slayer (finally get sneak attack to make the thing work)
5) slayer, slayer trick (anything since nothign here is necessary for build order i think) signature skill feat
6) brawler grater dirty trick or cornogen smash
7 the other feat, from here on can be both brawler or slayer.Is this corret?
NOPE! Dirty fighter is the ambrosia of combat maneuver builds as it removes those feat and ability taxes. Of course the build wouldn't be hurt much by doing it your way, I was just squeezing bounuses out of the build.
Sneak attack has rules for non-lethal damage.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
Basically the only way you can non-lethal sneak attack is if your weapon would normally deal non-lethal damage. You can't take the penalty to deal non-lethal and do non-lethal sneak attack. Which means Blade of Mercy wont let you do non-lethal sneak attack.
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Just my 2 cents
Blight Druid
Race: Tiefling, Oni Spawn, ability +2 Wisdom with Scaled Skin trait
Favored Class Bonus: +1 Hit Point
Archetype: Blight Druid
Nature Bond: Death domain
Traits: Omen and Magical Lineage (Frostbite)
STR 14 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 8
Feats
1- Enforcer
3- Rime Spell
5- Heavy Armor Proficiency
7- Natural Spell
9- Powerful Shape
11- Lunge
For this build to function properly you need to play it as a debuffer and deliver spells like Frostbite, Frigid Touch, etc. And have a nice endurance to stay close to combat to spread Miasma
From a roleplaying perspective this build has a lot of downsizes, but if you have a good DM you can talk through it and find a way to don’t alienate from all the social interactions.
For the first levels you will need to play like a caster and play safe and smart, on some combats you can go make some attacks according to your discretion.
At 6th level things will be very interesting and the build start to shine with Miasma. For tactics you can wild shape as an Air elemental and start moving around the battlefield, glide as an earth elemental and spread Miasma or take a lot of different approach to stay close to combat, spread Miasma and deliver your touch attacks.
Remember that with each Frostbite you can use it one attack per caster level and with Enforcer you can attempt to demoralize your enemies as a free action. With this simple combo you will have delivered Fatigued, Shaken and Sickened your foes
I'm loving this thread ^^
Didn't know about the slayer archetype and certainly he can be an interesting base for a debuff build. So here is what I brew:
Race: Human
Traits: Bred for War, Clever Wordplay (Intimidate)
Str 13 Dex 16+2 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 7
Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 2 Unchained Rogue (Thug) 4 Fighter (Lore Warden) 5
1- Studied target, Track, Dodge, Power Attack
2- Dirty Trick
3- Sneak Attack 1d6, Frightening, Weapon Finesse, Cornugon Smash
4- Evasion, Rogue talent (Combat Trick: Movility), +1 Dex
5- Finesse Training, Brutal Beating, Sneak Attack 2d6, Canny Tumble
6- Debilitating injury, Rogue talent (Weapon Training: Kukri)
7- Scholastic, Two-Weapon Fighting, Agile Maneuvers
8- Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, +1 Dex
9- Maneuver Mastery +2, Greater Dirty Trick
10- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11- Weapon Training (Light Blades), Dirty Trick Master
So I throw in a bit of everything in the mix (I was even wondering to add another class, maybe urban barbarian), but the main thing is that I wanted to include the first levels of the Unchained Rogue to grab the extra debuff of his Debilitating injury and the Thug's Brutal Beating.
This opens up extra options, especially at low levels when you cannot pull off the dirty trick maneuver that easily. Once we are on 7th level, the Lore Warden and the extra feats helps us build the dirty trick and two-weapon fighting lines.
At 11th level and without gear he has a +24 on Dirty Trick attemps (BA 10 + DEX 5 + Bred 1 + Sneak 2 + 4 feats + ManMaster 2)
The great problem this build has is his efing Will Save. I originally made him a Half Elf with Dual Minded, but was one feat short in the build (mainly to grab Cornugon Smash and Canny Tumble quickly)
If drawbacks are allowed, that opens up Carefully Hidden (or any other Will boost)
Of course, part of the problem is making him as a Dex Build, but having access to only Light Armor makes him an easy target without it.