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@Divvox2 i was thinking even of 1h weapons, even staying with crit 18 range but if you go shilded you have to forge casting in combat entirly, or did you find a way around that? Or did you go with buckler? Buckler and scimitar cuold be an option, but maybe only worth it when you can afford to have it enchanted, before i don't think the damage loss could be justified, but maybe yes...

Any advice on the starting tricks? for level 1 i mean. 7 tricks to start with, or 13 if i use the eye for talent to get 6 extra form level 1

For the AC feats surely light armor and combat reflexes, for when it gets large narrow frame

For the tricks you missed the Headband of Int +2. It becomes a permeate bonus after worn for 24hr. That gives them 6 more tricks.

Tricks
(Int 4) 12 +4 Animal Companion +1 Hunter =17

Eye for Talent: Giving up one feat for a +2 to one ability score. Well worth it especial at low level. It's a +1 to hit and damage. Added to +1 to hit and damage from animal focus. Stacking bonuses.
Eye for Talent +2 Str Animal Focus +2 Str = +4 Str at level 1.

You sold me pretty much the eye for talent, i think i will drop the improved trip to get it, will even invert the order in wich to aqire paired opportunist and combatt reflexes.

For the tricks, is it just RAI that since an animal companion with int 1 hax max 3, and with 2 max 6 trick it then scales 3 tricks for intelligence point or is it ruled somewhere? With some of the basic ones definitly needed, and most of the skirmishers ones that are awesome every extra trick is very good, and this could make worth investing in the AC int more than the usual 3 at the forth HD

@Selvaxri thanks!

If your fighter becomes a Drill Sergeant [fighter archetype], he gets the Tactician ability to hand out Teamwork feats, and eventually the ability to grant part of his Weapon Training bonus with the Allies as well.

Aside from Cavaliers and Inquisitors, Vanguards [Slayer archetype] get the Tactician ability as well.

The drill sergant could be a good choice, f i read it right, at level 2 in exchange for bravery he gets a teamwork feat(over the regual combat feat gained a level 2) plus the ability to grant that feat to allies with standard, and at 9 a second teamwork feat and the ability to grant them both with swift action, but the ability is restricted to only these teamwork feats, and not usable with other feats he could select on his own? it's still very good for the small featues it loses in respect of vanilla fighter even if the standard action before level 9 seems very expensive in action economy for an ability with so much limited uses for day

It works as the hunter class feature, except using the Inquisitor level instead of the hunter level (which would be 0 if they didn't say that). Since all of the text about the animal companion getting animal focus is contained in the Hunter's animal focus class feature, the Inquisitor gets it as well.

The text for the second focus is just reminder text, basically.

Thanks, i tought so, but was dubios, would not have been unreasonable even the other way around since the inquisitor is very powerful imho

This is just a general over view. The thing to think of when making a hunter. You don't need stat items when buying equipment. Moving to flank is cheaper then spending ability points and a feat. I spent 4k gold on one item (Headband of Int +2 Acrobatic). Now I can send my animal companion to flank most of the time. Having Swap Places make 5ft wide hall easy. Escape Route can be used to avoid AoO from large creatures. Bears are not the best animal companions. In game play they have preformed much better then the message boards would indicate. If other animal companions are better. I would really start to feel for the DM. As the two times I played a character with animal companion (Druid, Hunter). The bear has been the highest damage dealer in the party.

Hunter Build level 10. (PFS rules to make it easy.)
Human
Hunter 10
Str 15+2 human + 2 level 4, & 8 = 19 (Animal Focus +4 = 23)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8....

Animal Companion
Bear
Size Medium
Speed 40 ft. (60ft Long Strider Greater)
AC 31 (+3 Dex +8 natural armor + 3 barkskin + 7 Armor)
HP 94 (9D8 4.5 + 5 Con +1 Toughness = 10.5 per hit dice)
Fort 11 Ref 9 Will 4
Attack bite +16 (1d6+9), 2 claws +16 (1d4+9)
Power Attack bite +14 (1d6+13) 2 claws +14 (1d4+13)
Ability Scores Str 29, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 (Animal Focus Str, Con +4)
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
Tricks: 17 Skirmish Tricks 6/Day

Thanks for the feedback, a few questions, how do you get up to 17 tricks? At level 10 I wuold count 11, 6 base, 4 animal companion and 1 hunter bonus trick

Eye for talent seems good, but the question is, if using up the human bonus feat for that, might it not be worth at that point to give up even the skilled bonus a take that sweet +2 stat for yourself?

I didn't thinks of using the FCB for the pets skill points, but i now see why, giving upp 1 HP for level on the PC the AC doubles his skill points, especially at lower levels to unlock the +3 from traint i love this idea!

As for the stat array if leaving out combat expertise has sense, but the point why i find pack flanking very useful, especially in a party with a rogue is that having it means: Beaing able to flank when charging, beeing able to flank and leaving a "real" flanking square for the rogue, being able to stay in a position that allows us to use BOTH flanking and adiacent teamwork reletad feats.

As far as equipment having outflank i think i will always choose and 18/20 crit weapon, and since you cant cast while wilding weapon and shild, might as well go 2h with the well known falchion

Small cat looks nice, but in this party would a Str-based animal not be better? A team mate is a Skald and raging song explicitly works on animal companions.

Nice party, actually. Risky on the healing, but Spell Kenning will help, and with the others taking Teamwork feats too with rage you will rip through enemies.

Thanks, yes the party seems rather nice, i switched to hunter to have a limited dive spell casting from bounty hunter that was my initial choice (the now fighter was supposed to be an inquisitor), spell kenning could help!

It is not a difference.
The huntsmaster Inquisitor get an animal companion as the hunter (not druid), and the animal companion class feature for the hunter includes the skirmisher's tricks.

Really the only benefit the Hunter's animal companion had over the Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor is the extra bonus feat Outflank (or precise shot), earlier access to a few features (animal focus 1 & 2, improved empathic link, greater empathic link, and raise companion), speak with master, and 3 bonus tricks by level 20.

For me it comes down to spell list, class skills, good will vs ref, "track vs intimidate", "partial domain vs wild empathy", "woodland stride vs Bane", "alignment based features vs earlier access to features".

The outflank, is really the only thing worth mentioning, not only because bonus, but even early acces, at level 2 instead of 6, then reflexes in usually considered the least important save, while will is the most, woodland stride and wild empathy even in a non urban setting are more fluff than real abilities, and the inquisitor gets the same traking bonus of the hunter. I still like the hunter very much, but after level 5 with the bane, and level 6 where in inquisitor can select outflank you basically have the same skills plus a lot of extra stuff, you need to invest a trait to get handle animal as a class skill and short of a feat, but for all you get its well worth it. But since i actually have to play even the first leves, and since the huntmaster seems maybe to much powerful for the level of optimization the rest of the party will involve probably i will stick to hunter. a reason instead to lean to the huntmaster wuold be his spell list, in a team with no other divine caster it could be more useful to have that list even if usually the ranger early acces spells are considerd more powerful.

Don't forget that Hunter can teach it's companion Skirmisher Tricks. Some of those are really powerful.

I didn't know this difference, I will look in to them, thanks a lot! :)

pack flacking is amazing and absolutely worth the investment

you're going to have outflank, so it's pretty much an always on +4 to hit together

Exactly my tought, even if I'm now considering to go sacred hunt master, I would lose one feat but gain bane and a lot of other cool stuff and get better saves and initiative

At level 4 the archetype gains animal focus, but from the wording i'm dubious, does it work just for the huntmaster, or like for the hunter can you have it on your animal companion constantly as well? In the improved version gained later the animal compaiono is mentioned, before it isn't.

I was thinking of doing a hunter as well and came up with the same dilemma of the sacred hunt master. My conclusion is that hunter is better at levels 1-4 and inquisitor is better at 5+
Inquisitor has much better saves, initiative, a bunch of useful abilities and from level 5 bane.
Hunter has access to full martial weapons, a bonus feat at level 2 and access to animal focus from level 1 instead of 4.
At level 5 basically the inquisitor has everything the hunter has short of one feat, plus a lot of cool and useful abilities and even going up at level 8 the second animal focus doesn't make up for the difference even if it helps.

P.S. considered the party composition do you agree that a Hunter built like this wuold be more useful than a bounty hunter slayer built like http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u0xa?Melee-debuffer-advice ? I like both as flavor, but i think that maybe the hunter would be more useful for the teamwork feats synergie and addig a moderate divine casting in a party with no other divine caster a diffrent spells not available to skalds or wizards

Hello, i need advice on a possible Hunter charter i might make, have to start in just 2 days, so i must complete at least the basics before that. The race must be human and buy point will be set at 20. The rest of the party will be wizard, skald, fighter, and UC rogue, the last 2 will be taking teamwork feats as well, even if I don't know the exact build.

Reading some guides this is what i've come up with:

Traits group fighter (need advie for the other 2, our GM allows flaws, other than the classic +2 at initiative anything good ofr hunters?)

Stats

str 16 (14+2)
dex 14
con 12
int 13 (for combat expertise, could dip brawler but i don't dislike the extra skill points)
wis 14
cha 10 (could drop do 8 to bump up to 14 int)

FCB +1 hit point to make up for the low constituion for a melee d8 charter

Feat selection
1 combat expertise, improved trip
2 outflank
3 pack flanking, combat reflexes
5 paired opportunist
6 broken wing gambit
7 Improved spell sharing
9 shake it off / greater trip
11 improved critical
12 seize the moment
13 to choose
15 coordinate charge +1 to choose

the 13 and 15 feats could be iron will and improved, or other teamwork feats from precise strike, tandem trip, look out, duck and cover, or escape route.

Is this feat selection good? Should I drop the trip feats to gain faster the other ones and/or add something else(i really would like to get shake it off and improved spell sharing earlier)?

Last but very important, I have no idea on what animal companion to choose, and what feats to choose on it, other than combat reflexes. It needs to have at least dex 13 for the feat, and wuold prefer one with a single big attack, to get the most out of the aoo instead of one with 3 waker attacks. Can some one help me here? I saw a lot of people going with the t-rex, is it the strongest?

Thanks to all for any advice you can give

I'm loving this thread ^^

Didn't know about the slayer archetype and certainly he can be an interesting base for a debuff build. So here is what I brew:

Race: Human

Traits: Bred for War, Clever Wordplay (Intimidate)

Str 13 Dex 16+2 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 7

Slayer (Bounty Hunter) 2 Unchained Rogue (Thug) 4 Fighter (Lore Warden) 5

1- Studied target, Track, Dodge, Power Attack
2- Dirty Trick
3- Sneak Attack 1d6, Frightening, Weapon Finesse, Cornugon Smash

etc etc

Cornugon smash requires BAB +6 so it's not avilable that soon, plus if you leave bounty hunter before level 7 you can'tt study a target with swift acion, that is quaite good. For that reasons i decided to revisit my build quite a bit and this is what i came up with a full bounty hunter with no dipping. The idea is that since the PC needs to be played from first level he goes with enforcer instead of cornugon smash, a using the TWF style he has a lot more opportuinits to do dirty tricks and use enforcer, if we added power attack probably the miss chance would be to high, and thus not worth it.

Human (focused study alternate racial) traits blades of mercy(my GM allows to use it with sneak attak), bred for war

1 Enforcer, Skill focus intimidate
2
3 dirty fighter
4 ranger stye TWF
5 Signature skill intimidate
6 Improved dirty trick (from human favored class bonus)
7 greater dirty trick
8 ranger style improved twf, second skill focus (perception)
9 combat reflexes OR lunge
10
11 dirty trick master
12 ranger style greater TWF + second slayer advanced talent from human favored class bonus

The mid level feats can be mixed up a bit, depending if we want to get first better dirty tricks, better improvments on the intimidate, or more attack for round, and thus more chances to trigger the above effects more often. For example we could delay signature skill to level 7 and take improved dirty trick at 5 and greater at 6

With the buy point instead I really cant' make up my mind, i think that str 16+2=18, dex 14 and wis 12 are a must, could be wrong. Some stat arrays could be (human +2 bonus always included in STR, 20 buy point):

most min maxes array
str 18
dex 14
con 14
int 7
wis 12 (could swap with con)
cha 12

medium array
str 18
dex 14
con 13
int 10
wis 12
cha 10

all 12 array
str 18
rest all 12

NO min max array
str 16
dex 14
con 14
int 10
wis 14
cha 10

What stat array wuold you choose?

I like to do builds with Intimidate and Sickened.

Common routes to cause shaken via intimidation include Cornugon Smash and Hurtful with a Cruel Weapon. The other is Bludgeoner with Enforcer, then Hurtful with a Cruel Weapon.

If you can cast Arcane Spell you can grab Arcane Strike and Riving Strike. This works well with the Enforcer route, and doesn't work with Cornugon Smash because of the need for Swift Actions. However, it can work for a Bloodrager who can grab Blooded Arcane Strike.

I'm playing a Tyrant Antipaladin who is doing the Cornugon Smash route, and between causing Shaken, then Sickened, the aura that causes a -2 to saves I can cause a -6 penalty to saves. And then follow it up with the Cursed cruelty, which I apply using a conductive weapon. And, in case you're wondering Tyrant Antipaladin works just fine since I'm Lawful Evil.

I missed hurtful with all the intimidate feats, that seems very useful if i manage to squeeze it in. Cornugon smash, just like enforcer uses free action. The tyrant antipaladin could be intresting, for the party a caotich evil would of been a NO NO but a lawful evil could work. If ai stay with the bounty hunter however i'm starting to question the cornugon smash route, since most creatures that are not fear immune wuold anywhay even take nonlethal damage maybe its best to just take enforcer, it kicks in itout BaB 6, saves from using a feat on power attack, that for a standard fighter is good, but if i need to make a lot of manuvers i thinks the to hit chance loss would be more than the benefit, and wold make at that point even intresting to use a shield to get a better AC. with the feat spared from power attack i could get hurtful, and with the one spared from furios focus later on with intimidatig prowess to bump up antoher 5 points more or less on the intimidating check.

Question for i didin't find a clear answer, if i select the blade of mercy trait can i use it to do non lethal sneak attak? I read some people say yes and some no, but not anything that sounded official ruling. Second trait would be bred of war, or the overused reactionary.

For the previous shaman post I realised, that half of stuff is nonsense, because i didn't read correctly the class, still i really am not sure for the monk dip

Shaman build is easy...
Level 1 of either sohei or Unchained monk than shaman " speaker of the past "
Hex strike no save evil with a flurry.
Wisdom to ac , have access...

Is the one level monk dip worth it for a full casting class? Speaker of the past gets some pretty good stff, from ancestors and time, but if i can skip the good stuff time gives, like erase from time, temporal celerity and time hop, the Occult mistery seems like an upgrade from the ancestors, has most of the same useful things, but the phantom touch scales with level from shaken, to frightened to panicked, and with your level 1 unseen servant you can even pick up what the enemy drops fleeing for extra fun!

A question on the bounty hunters 2 level class feature dirty trick, the ability lets you make a dirty trick instead of applying the sneak attack damage(but you still do your regular damage), if you take any rogue/slayer/ninja trick that would add additional effect on your sneak attack wuold thesee additional effect anyway kick in or not? I'm leaning to belive not but if was a yes i might try to squeeze in something.

I like the shaman idea, always loved eveil eye, and ill omen, was looking for a good build but could not find it.
Still looking for a good way do use spirituallist to, as concept its the one that i find the most attractive, but couldn't find anything complete enough to make the build.

For the bounty hunter triple cheking all the feat prerequisites etc this would be the final version if i decide for a non caster PC:

Human focused study alternate racial trait, slayer favored class 1/6 slayer talent
(20 buy point)
str 18 (16+12)
dex 14
con 14
int 8
wis 12
cha 10

1 brawler combat expertise, human bonus skill focus intimidate
2 slayer
3 slayer improved dirty trick
4 slayer
5 slayer signture skill intimidate, ranger style feat power attack
6 slayer
7 slayer cornugon smash, slayer talent from human favored class bonus into grater dirty trick
8 slayer second human skill focus
9 slayer combat reflexes, slayer talent ranger style feat furios focus
10 slayer
11 slayer dirty trick master

Notable tactis used other than the obvious dirty trick and cornugon smash is especially at lower leves abuse the brawlers martial flexibility to get the enorcer feat that he can use with unarmed strikes, later on he might prefer to use the floating feat to get the next up on the chain if he meets the BaB prerequisits. I'm not usually a fan of dipping, but here the brawler really is a good dip.

Gear to seek in order of importance(correct me if i'm wrong please):
+X cruel weapon
+X cloack of resistance, plus anything else that can boost the low will save
items that boost intimidate
standard AC items
something for mobility (maybe this should be higher on the list right after the cruel weapon? not having any in built mobility or any worth ranged attack if he cant reach his enemy he is pretty screwd/usless)

Noticed now, if i'm not missing something, that for the dirty trick, you need even the combat expertise feat, and Int 13, so need to mix up things a bit. So if we stay with slayer bounty hunter it wuold become:
1) combat expertise, skill focus
3) improved dirty trick
4) slayer talent into combat feat power attack
5) signature skill intimidate
level 7 and 9 conugon smash and greater dirty trick in interchanable order

If we mix in the brawler instead we could go:
1) brawler, power attack and skill focus
2) slayer
3) slayer combat expertise
4) slayer (finally get sneak attack to make the thing work)
5) slayer, slayer trick (anything since nothign here is necessary for build order i think) signature skill feat
6) brawler grater dirty trick or cornogen smash
7 the other feat, from here on can be both brawler or slayer.

Is this corret?

For cleric, don't feel like playing one this time, maybe oracole or better shaman for the campaign setting.
For the inquisitor we alredy have one, and don't like to have double classes in the party.
Eldritch guardian seems a fun option, I didn't know the archetypr, and am still new to the familiar archetype, but it seems a good way to have a combat pet class with full bab alternative to rangers.

Thanks for the build Derpdidruid, quite simple and effetive. At second level the bounty hunter archetype loses the slayer talent, but since i'm restricted to human only as race i will just take up the feat from first level, or i could let the thing kick in later and tke it instead of blood reader, to trade the human bonus feat to get the alternative racial feature that gives you at various levels 3 skill focus starting with intimidate. For stat array, the class really seems like strenght focuesd, but needing a little bit ov everithing, so maybe str 16+2=18 and the rest all 12 could be appealing., as for advanice after level 4 i could see both sticking to bounty hunter, or even going directly in to brawler. The best thing of the fighter route could be the feat swapping ability, so messing a bit around you could start at level 1 with enforcer or dazzling display, to make an example, then go bounty hunter, and later when you reach the fourth level of fighter and alredy have cornogen smash swap that feat away.

Grandlounge and Derpdiduid both your PC's seem very intresting, could you give me a full level by level build on how they are made?

Hello everyone, for the next campaign i intend to build a melee debuffing PC, and wuold like some advice on possibile optimizied builds.
The rest of the party will probably be made of a wizard, a skald(or bard), a ninja(or UC rogue), and inquisitor.
The campaign setting will allow humans only as playable race, and have severe restrictions to all long range teleports and limits on the reliabilty on divinations spells. The setting could involve a lot more of scouting, survival in open landscapes and a lot less dungeon crawling than the typical one from what i understood from the GM.

Some of the options I am thinking of are:
Mesmerist
Spiritualist
Shaman
Fighter

If other classes i didin't mention could fit well the role i'm open to every possibility.

With all of them i would like to pair cornugon smash or similar feats, for the rest the mesmerist has all debuffs built in, the spiritualist is similar but with pet, and I love pet classes, the shaman i find very attractive because like cleric or druid dosen't have spells known but can setup for each day with much flexibilty, and the fighter has insted respect to the spell casting classes less versatility but has probably a more relayable damage output to compensate for the fewer debuff capabilities.