Advice on an Oradin build


Advice


Okay, so I'm about to run Strange Aeons with my group, and I'm very enamored with the idea of a Paladin of Sarenrae who hunts down aberrations, however my DM is limiting us to 15 point buy for our characters to encourage the group to stick together and work as a team rather than lone wolfing all the time, as a few of our party members have become fond of. Unfortunately, this means that my build is rather tight due to the boneheaded actions of others, and my Paladin that relies on three stats is going to be kind of lackluster compared to others unless I amp things up a bit. I'm stuck with a starting stat block of Str 17/Con 15/Cha 16/Dex-Int-Wis 10.

Enter the Oradin. I'm taking the Sacred Servant (Glory domain from Sarenrae) archetype as well as Oath against Corruption for extra aberration murdering power. Looking at the class features, it appears that I don't really have anything (outside of a capstone feature that I'll probably never even get to anyway) beyond 16th level, barring some spell slots for lvl 4 pally spells. That leaves me room to take a four level dip in Oracle for the Lore mystery that will give me all knowledge skills as class abilities, let me use my Charisma for those rolls, and also let me add my Charisma to my AC in place of Dex. This will help make up for my non-existent Dex for AC, my low int for knowledge rolls (and four levels of Oracle give me a heaping handful of skill ranks to drop on relevant ones at the start) plus the Blackened mystery which, while it will give me a small penalty to my weapon rolls, will also give me a few spontaneous fire spells to cast, which is just suiting for a pally of Sarenrae.

I'm planning to roll with a 2-handed greatsword and take power attack, improved critical and critical focus for sure so I can amp up my damage from combat and then use my Oracle spells as ranged damage to make up for low speed in my armor, plus having some nice light-themed spells just suits as well.

Is this a sound build idea? I really want to roll with it, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm missing something huge here that will be a big detriment. I'm even batting around the idea of taking Additional Traits as a feat to get Magical Knack and give myself a +2 to caster level on Oracle even though there's only a handful of spells that would really benefit from it and then only by about one damage die. Would this be better suited to Paladin so my pally spells are stronger?

If any of you see something I'm missing, please let me know so I don't get waist deep in this campaign only to find out I've built a gimped character. Otherwise, suggestions to add to this without taking away anything I've mentioned would be appreciated, or just general encouragement that I'm not a complete moron for taking a four level dip on a pally. Thanks!


How did you get that stat array with a 15 point buy?


Even with an Aasimar Variant of +2 Str, +2 Con for 15/10/15/10/10/14, you have a 19 point buy.

Oradin plays with Life Oracle, not Lore. You won't be getting the skill points per level to be a skill monkey even with the help of Lore and you aren't going to have amazing AC just because of the Cha to Dex. You have armor mostly for that as a frontline Fighter.

Please reconsider Black Blooded Oracle, as your own healing as a Paladin (lay on hands), won't heal you. Also don't take additional Traits. You won't need the concentration check since you do have a good melee option if things are in your face and you don't have to make a concentration check for Lay on Hands.


Aasimar have alternate racial stuff, so they could have +con/cha/str for 15/10/13/10/10/14, which is 15 point buy.
EDIT: Agathion-Blooded with +str (variant ability 9) or Angel-Blooded with +con (variant ability 70) or +str (with a different base score) both work.

EDIT: also, yeah, Life Oracle not Lore. I'd also recommend, if you can, dropping that 10 wis to 8 (paladin makes up for it at level 2) for dex 12, for the +init/reflex/ac


I'm going angel-blooded and using the alternate racial trait to trade the spell-like ability for a +2 Con to get that stat spread.

That said, I am *really* not going for a healing build, because there is already somebody else in the party who's going to be a focused healer character. My heals are going to be incidental and when/if I use them it's going to be strictly in case of emergency or as a back up healer out of combat to save his spell slots. My intent is to make a melee fighter that can sling a few offensive ranged spells to make up for low speed. The extra knowledge skills aren't with the intent to skill-monkey, but rather to help the party cover our bases, as I know what they're generally planning, and none of them are going to bother taking dungeoneering or planes or anything like that that might come in handy in a campaign like Strange Aeons. I'm also playing an aberration hunter, so I'd like him to have his *own* knowledge of aberrations and extraplanar abominations and the like, rather than relying on someone else to tell him what he should rightfully know on his own due to his line of work. Extra AC and covering my int deficiency is simply a perk that comes along with a few extra spontaneous spells that include cure spells so I don't have to waste my pally spells known slots on them as well as some nice ranged damage like burst of radiance.

I'm *really* not at all interested in this preconceived notion of Oradins being strictly healer, nor am I going to suddenly change my direction for the character just because of that. It's not in the slightest what I intend.

All that said, does this sound like a solid plan for a Paladin with a small dip to supplement my abilities and give me a boost to some areas that will be lacking, or no?


I think that the confusion then is that you're using "Oradin" to mean "multiclassed Oracle/Paladin" and not the conventionally understood use of the term for the incredibly efficient healer that is the life oracle who can lay on hands.

Frankly, I've only ever heard "Oradin" for the latter.


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Oradin is a very strong build, but the reason is you can use the Lay On Hands to self-heal and Life Link to take on the damage from others. Assuming you go Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Paladin the rest of the way you still get second level spells before a straight paladin would.

The thing is, based on your description you aren't looking to be the strongest battle field healer. You seem to want to be strong in melee.

Have you considered Paladin/Bloodrager instead? The ability to use the Bloodrager wands is often worth the dip, and you don't reduce your BAB.

Edit to add: Oradin is used for any Paladin/Oracle, but the build with the most synergy is found by using the Life Oracle.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think that the confusion then is that you're using "Oradin" to mean "multiclassed Oracle/Paladin" and not the conventionally understood use of the term for the incredibly efficient healer that is the life oracle who can lay on hands.

Frankly, I've only ever heard "Oradin" for the latter.

Ahh, my bad. Didn't mean to spark such confusion, but I've heard the term tossed around so much I thought it was just an efficient contraction for a multi-classed character.

Hopefully we can set that confusion aside now, because I'm really wondering if this is a good idea to do or not and I haven't been able to get any good input anywhere else.


BretI wrote:

Oradin is a very strong build, but the reason is you can use the Lay On Hands to self-heal and Life Link to take on the damage from others. Assuming you go Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Paladin the rest of the way you still get second level spells before a straight paladin would.

The thing is, based on your description you aren't looking to be the strongest battle field healer. You seem to want to be strong in melee.

Have you considered Paladin/Bloodrager instead? The ability to use the Bloodrager wands is often worth the dip, and you don't reduce your BAB.

Edit to add: Oradin is used for any Paladin/Oracle, but the build with the most synergy is found by using the Life Oracle.

The Paladin 2/Oracle 4/Paladin to 20 is exactly what I had planned, as the character is going to awaken with no memory but play as a swordfighter for that bit before he manifests the curse as a punishment from Sarenrae (she likes to pass down bad sunburns or blindness for transgressors, so I figured Blackened fit the flavor well and doesn't hurt as bad as clouded vision) and gains a bit of power from her trying to steer him back to the straight and narrow.

I'm not going bloodrager because it doesn't suit the character well, nor does it allow me to cast spontaneously whilst wearing armor without a failure chance, because it's arcane casting. Oracle is spontaneous divine casting that I can do in heavier armor while still maintaining a charisma (nee dex) bonus to AC and gives me access to the curse that will give me some fire spells to fling around in the name of the sun goddess. I'll take a *bit* of a hit to melee with the Oracle dip, but by level 20 I'll literally be only one BAB point behind max if I limit it to 4 levels. The intent is simply to let me close the distance with my 20 foot armored move speed and be able to cast a damaging spell at the enemy to draw their attention to me instead of moving 20 feet then standing around while my team mates fling spells and zip around the field killing everything.

As far as I can see this has only positive results on my character's effectiveness by giving him a tiny bit of extra utility and covering a few weak points. Literally all I want to know is "Is this going to gimp me?"


JKPhage wrote:
BretI wrote:

Oradin is a very strong build, but the reason is you can use the Lay On Hands to self-heal and Life Link to take on the damage from others. Assuming you go Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Paladin the rest of the way you still get second level spells before a straight paladin would.

The thing is, based on your description you aren't looking to be the strongest battle field healer. You seem to want to be strong in melee.

Have you considered Paladin/Bloodrager instead? The ability to use the Bloodrager wands is often worth the dip, and you don't reduce your BAB.

Edit to add: Oradin is used for any Paladin/Oracle, but the build with the most synergy is found by using the Life Oracle.

The Paladin 2/Oracle 4/Paladin to 20 is exactly what I had planned, as the character is going to awaken with no memory but play as a swordfighter for that bit before he manifests the curse as a punishment from Sarenrae (she likes to pass down bad sunburns or blindness for transgressors, so I figured Blackened fit the flavor well and doesn't hurt as bad as clouded vision) and gains a bit of power from her trying to steer him back to the straight and narrow.

I'm not going bloodrager because it doesn't suit the character well, nor does it allow me to cast spontaneously whilst wearing armor without a failure chance, because it's arcane casting. Oracle is spontaneous divine casting that I can do in heavier armor while still maintaining a charisma (nee dex) bonus to AC and gives me access to the curse that will give me some fire spells to fling around in the name of the sun goddess. I'll take a *bit* of a hit to melee with the Oracle dip, but by level 20 I'll literally be only one BAB point behind max if I limit it to 4 levels. The intent is simply to let me close the distance with my 20 foot armored move speed and be able to cast a damaging spell at the enemy to draw their attention to me instead of moving 20 feet then standing around while my team mates fling spells and zip around the field killing
...

Not really. You should be fine. Paladin spells are hurt the most I'd think, but everything else seems to still work fine.

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Are you taking that Noble Scion feat at 1st level for Charisma to initiative? Or the old standby Fey Foundling for the self-healing?

Does Pathfinder have a Strength-based Throwing Feat? Because that might be a better option for emergency ranged combat than spells.

Or if you're worried about speed, that Bloodrager dip you said you don't want to do could help with that, too.

Have you considered taking the Flame Mystery for the Cinder Dance revelation for added speed and fiery goodness?


You don't need to take Oracle to level 4. Just take one level of Lore Oracle get your DEX to AC and then take the Extra Revelation Feat for the CHA to Knowledge Skills. My first PFS character to level 12 is this exact build with a 20 point buy

Spoiler:

Paladin
Female angel-blooded aasimar (angelkin) oracle 1/paladin (oath of vengeance) 11 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels 21, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 60)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +7; Senses Perception +0
Aura courage (10 ft.), resolve (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 17, flat-footed 23 (+9 armor, +7 Dex, +4 shield)
hp 111 (12 HD; 1d8+11d10+36)
Fort +17, Ref +18, Will +17; +2 vs. [evil], +2 circumstance vs. blinded or dazzled
Immune charm, disease, fear; Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., fly 30 ft. (average)
Melee +3 longsword +19/+14/+9 (1d8+17/19-20) or
. . divine bond +21/+16/+11 (1d8+19/17-20)
Special Attacks smite evil 4/day (+7 attack and AC, +11 damage)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +19)
. . At will—halo
. . 1/day—alter self, suggestion (DC 20)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th; concentration +18)
. . At will—detect evil
Oracle Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +8)
. . 1st (5/day)—comprehend languages, cure light wounds, fallback strategy
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, enhanced diplomacy, stabilize
. . Mystery Lore
Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) Spells Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +15)
. . 3rd—litany of sight[UC], communal resist energy[UC], greater stunning barrier[ACG] (DC 20)
. . 2nd—communal endure elements[UC], litany of defense[UC], communal protection from evil[UC]
. . 1st—divine favor, grace[APG], lesser restoration, word of resolve[UM]
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 24
Base Atk +11; CMB +16; CMD 29
Feats Angel Wings[ARG], Angelic Blood[ARG], Deific Obedience, Extra Revelation[APG], Noble Scion Of War[ISWG], Power Attack
Traits bully, cosmopolitan (absalom)
Skills Diplomacy +21, Fly +6, Intimidate +16 (+18 circumstance vs. evil creatures), Knowledge (arcana) +16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +16, Knowledge (history) +15, Knowledge (local) +16, Knowledge (nature) +16, Knowledge (nobility) +17, Knowledge (planes) +16, Knowledge (religion) +17, Linguistics +19, Sense Motive +2, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost)
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Ancient Osiriani, Aquan, Auran, Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Cyclops, Daemonic, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Ignan, Infernal, Jistka, Polyglot, Sign Language, Sphinx, Sylvan, Terran, Thassilonian, Tien, Undercommon, Varisian
SQ channel wrath, divine bond (weapon +3, 2/day), halo, interaction bonus, lay on hands 12/day (5d6), mercies (fatigued, frightened, shaken), oracle's curse (legalistic), powerful justice, revelations (lore keeper, sidestep secret), suggestion 1/day, truespeaker, vow to self
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds, wand of cure light wounds, wayfinder, shining; Other Gear celestial armor, +2 heavy steel shield, +3 longsword, divine bond, pink rhomboid ioun stone, scarlet and blue sphere ioun stone, belt of giant strength +6, headband of alluring charisma +6, wayfinder[ISWG], 676 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Angelic Blood +2 saves vs. evil effects, to stabilize while dying, and 1 damage to evil or undead if bleeding.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Resolve +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. charm.
Channel Wrath (Su) When an oathbound paladin reach 4th level, she can spend two uses of her lay on hands ability to gain an extra use of smite evil that day.

This ability has no effect for a paladin who does not have the smite evil ability. This ability replaces
Deific Obedience Purify yourself daily to prove devotion to a deity and gain benefits.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +3, 11 mins, 2/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fly (30 feet, Average) You can fly!
Halo +2 to intimidate vs. evil creatures and to saves against becoming blinded or dazzled.
Immunity to Charm You are immune to charm effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Interaction Bonus +3 bonus to one-on-one Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks.
Lay on Hands (5d6 hit points, 12/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Legalistic The shackles of Hell impose savage consequences should you violate a covenant, but also imbue you with remarkable guile. Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your ob
Lore Keeper (Ex) Knowledge Skills become CHA-based.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mercy (Frightened) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the frightened condition.
Mercy (Shaken) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the shaken condition.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Powerful Justice (Su) At 11th level, an oathbound paladin may spends one use of her smite evil ability to grant her allies within 10 feet the ability to smite evil, except they only gain the paladin's bonus to damage, not her smite's attack bonus or ability to bypass DR.
Smite Evil (4/day) (Su) +7 to hit, +11 to damage, +7 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Suggestion 1/day (Sp) 1/day use suggestion as a spell like ability.
Truespeaker Learn two languages for each rank you put in Linguistics.
Vow to Self (1/day) +4 morale bonus to one role to keep a promise.

In hindsight the two feats for the wings was a complete waste, and would go a different way if I had to do it over, but it really is an effective character for PFS.


JKPhage wrote:
Literally all I want to know is "Is this going to gimp me?"

Sidestepping the definition of Oradin as it was already covered...

... you have a melee-centric paladin build to which you're adding blackened curse (–4 penalty on weapon attack rolls) oracle as a dip for ranged spell damage? The answer is yes.


Is it a Palacle then?
Have played ton of paladin oracle combos and in Actual Play they have seemed worthy and busy and robust

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