Dragonblood Mutagen (Su)
At 1st level, a dragonblood chymist discovers how to create a mutagen that he can imbibe in order to mimic the might of a dragon. While he maintains his original form, his features take on a draconic appearance, becoming scaly and lizard-like. He gains a +2 natural armor bonus and a +2 alchemical bonus to his Strength for 10 minutes per class level.
This ability modifies the mutagen class feature
is this added on top of the normal mutagen since it modifies the mutagen class feature that the class already gets?
I would, but the NA and Str wouldn't stack.
You could, however, get a Con or Dex bonus in addition to the Str.
The NA would 100% stack. That is an untyped bonus to NA, while the normal Mutagen grants an Alchemical bonus. The Str one should not stack though, yes.
I think the bonuses given replace the normal mutagen bonuses, but I'm not entirely sure.
replaces. instead of having options and whatnot you have this. But the rules for how mutagen works are the same. Hence you modifying mutagen.
There's a reason it's considered a really bad archetype. That with a discovery or two you get the same or better results of the entire archetype? basically.
I see the point. I don't think it is worth it, but I see the point.
It basically tosses out the mental penalty in return for less bonus (and then later the inability to get bonuses to multiple stats). Everything after that is just forcing you to take a selection of discoveries that you might take anyway with a melee focused build (feral mutagen, the the upgrades to mutagens but you start at a lower palce; so the selection isn't bad if you want that anyway).
Not worth it at all, but I get the idea. With regular mutagens, a bonus to str means a penalty to int. That penalty isn't permanent though, so it doesn't affect skill points and number of bombs (I think). And you basically 'precast' you spells when you make extracts, so your casting is unaffected. Just about the only thing that gets affected is you is the bomb damage... and that is ruined here anyway since you HAVE to use a particular shape of bomb (so no proper projectiles with either missiles or just plain throwing it). Well, that and knowledge checks.
Also, it isn't like you necessarily have to make tough decisions when pumping other stats later either. Bonus to con leads to cha penalty... which sucks for intimidate, but is is only a -1 to cha stuff (so you can more than take a trait to solve that if it really matters). The dex/wis thing is a serious price due to will saves... but if it REALLY bothered you tht much, you could just go str/con, void the final mutagen upgrade that hits the third stat, nd get basiclly the same result and with more health.
So overall, you end up with slightly subpar stat bonuses just to avoid some mental penalties you can work around anyway. Also your bombs are forced to always be a breath, which can severely limit you.
Of course, this is all assuming I read this archetype right. But I am fairly sure that is how it works.
Feral mutagen works at lv2. I have no idea where you're getting lv6 for them. The fact that there are current discoveries to give you all the immunities and resistances that also give more, and that you can still take more stuff.
Yeah, this isn't worth it. Simply put, Greater and Grand Mutagens provide increases to your entire physical attributes, and a ton of Natural Armor, and are 100% worth the discoveries if you build toward being melee oriented.
Sure, you're suffering mental penalties across the board, but a single 20,000 gold Chest slot negates all of that; most specifically, the Vest of Stable Mutation from Ultimate Equipment, which says that "While under the effect of any type of mutagen, the wearer takes no penalty to mental ability scores from that mutagen." So really, by 12th level (when you can afford to take the Greater Mutagen discoveries), you should be able to obtain this item without issue.
Yeah, this isn't worth it. Simply put, Greater and Grand Mutagens provide increases to your entire physical attributes, and a ton of Natural Armor, and are 100% worth the discoveries if you build toward being melee oriented.
Sure, you're suffering mental penalties across the board, but a single 20,000 gold Chest slot negates all of that; most specifically, the Vest of Stable Mutation from Ultimate Equipment, which says that "While under the effect of any type of mutagen, the wearer takes no penalty to mental ability scores from that mutagen." So really, by 12th level (when you can afford to take the Greater Mutagen discoveries), you should be able to obtain this item without issue.
Well, that, and the only truly regrettable mental penalty is the one to wis... and you can just avoid that until the end if you have to. The class is set up to mostly mitigate the int penalty....and cha? More like c-hahahaha.
But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.
If they wanted this to be 'worth it', they should have perhaps gives this abilities related to the form of the dragon spell (much like the beast morph archetype, where you get the effects but maintain a human-ish form). Form of of the dragon I seems close enough to a mutagen replacement that you just need to level gate the special abilities/movement (ie: flight turns on as an option at level 7). Then, at level 12, you can do form of the dragon II in place of greater mutagen (note: remove DR and breath weapon; first is a balance issue, second is replaced by bombs). Maybe cap the abilities there, and then just improve the stats for grand mutagen.
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But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.
Noooooooooooooooooope. Mummification gives those immunities. AND cold and nonlethal immunity on top. And technically, 25% Fortification, since that's a prereq.
But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.Noooooooooooooooooope. Mummification gives those immunities. AND cold and nonlethal immunity on top. And technically, 25% Fortification, since that's a prereq.
So this is mostly a weaker version of things you could already do as a regular alchemist?
...just make a beastmorph and make yourself scal-y. You can get a similar build. Stick to str/con, and you will notice few to no problems.
But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.Noooooooooooooooooope. Mummification gives those immunities. AND cold and nonlethal immunity on top. And technically, 25% Fortification, since that's a prereq.So this is mostly a weaker version of things you could already do as a regular alchemist?
...just make a beastmorph and make yourself scal-y. You can get a similar build. Stick to str/con, and you will notice few to no problems.
Yup, people pointed this out 2ish weeks before release as they got their early pdf and spoiled some.
So while the book has some options worth looking at, there's lots of trap options because dragons??? Because I'm official dragon fluff is part of the bonus factored in to these archetypes?
They might have also gotten away with it if they just handed out a x1.5 str bite and a decent tail attack. Y'know, like the dragons have.
Then, you might at least see people say 'but it has some good natural attacks'.
yeah, I can easily see it as a martial focus archetype that turns more and more into a dragon man.
all it needs is Some things to be better than currently available discoveries. At least then you can't say that a normal alchemist is mechanically superior. even make it scaling so 1.5 bite isn't until 4th and tail at 6th or 8 or something. Like wouldn't make it awesome awesome, but at least make it worthwhile if you're looking for that kind of character.
But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.Noooooooooooooooooope. Mummification gives those immunities. AND cold and nonlethal immunity on top. And technically, 25% Fortification, since that's a prereq.So this is mostly a weaker version of things you could already do as a regular alchemist?
...just make a beastmorph and make yourself scal-y. You can get a similar build. Stick to str/con, and you will notice few to no problems.
Yup, people pointed this out 2ish weeks before release as they got their early pdf and spoiled some.
So while the book has some options worth looking at, there's lots of trap options because dragons??? Because I'm official dragon fluff is part of the bonus factored in to these archetypes?
It's not a trap because dragons. It's a trap because it gives the illusion of being better without actually necessarily being better. See: Dexterity-based characters V.S. Strength-based characters.
A lot of people don't want to sacrifice character effectiveness for "fluff" purposes. Especially when that same "fluff" can apply to the original options just as well. (No surprise I'm in agreement with such ideals.)
Quite frankly, a lot of the suggestions being made so far (granting more and better natural attacks, flight, vision, etc., like most Dragons are supposed to have), not only makes it not a trap option, but also provides better, more fulfilling flavor to the archetype as well.
no I agree it's not a trap because it's dragon themed. I'm was trying to convey the idea that the justification would have been like this.
hey joe, I see you made a dragon themed archetype for alchemist
that's right mike I did.
so joe, I notice, since I love alchemists, that everything you give them is basically a worse or later version of everything they already get. why?
Well mike, it's dragon themed. So to be able to say you're playing an official dragon themed archetype is worth like two abilities on it's own and thus makes it okay that it's a trap archetype mechanically.
Cause see mike, everyone agreed that being dragons makes everything okay, because you get to use official fluff to be dragon-ish! Hence lots of trap options in this book.
But really... the only thing this gets that can't be summed up as 'a few specific discoveries' is the paralysis/sleep resists.Noooooooooooooooooope. Mummification gives those immunities. AND cold and nonlethal immunity on top. And technically, 25% Fortification, since that's a prereq.So this is mostly a weaker version of things you could already do as a regular alchemist?
...just make a beastmorph and make yourself scal-y. You can get a similar build. Stick to str/con, and you will notice few to no problems.
or just be a lizardfolk alchemist and not give a f##*.
Or reflavor the Scaleheart skinwalker to be more Draconic!
A FAQ takes anywhere from 5 days to years to be answered. There's a magic queue that FAQ potentials are on. Generally if you have 100+ clicks and it's an easy answer it should only take a few months... If they are being consistent and answering one every week. If they have delays then it delays everything, and if your question doesn't have a clear simple answer it will take longer too.
Player Companions almost never get FAQs unless they impinge on some broader rules concern. This won't get an answer.
Player Companions almost never get FAQs unless they impinge on some broader rules concern. This won't get an answer.
Or unless they decide to publish them as errata in a Hardcover book.
Which has happened. Hi, Fencing Grace!
Looking at it... was there anything good from this legacy of dragons book? Because I have looked over the various archetypes that give drakes... and the drakes seem massively overvalued. If the drakes were eidolons, I could understand... but they start off at familiar levels of usefulness in a fight, and only really come up to snuff at a WAY later date (when they are large sized).
But even then, they mostly seem like 'weaker animal companions' than anything, since they don't get the normal animal companion stat boosts. However, all of the classes that get drakes basically get half if not all of their main, defining class feature ripped out just to get the right to a drake.
So, along with the dragonblood chemist, it seems like it is mostly "you pay with a ton of stuff to get a watered down version of class features you already basically have".
EDIT: found two so far. The scaled fist monk is fine for unchained monks. And there is the wyrm witch which replaces the killable familiar with a hoard... that generally functions like a bonded item for "get an extra spell" bit, but you don't have to have it on hand (you just need to sleep on it).
I liked the Scaled Fist (the charisma based Monk).
Yeah, that monk archetype and the one witch archetype are the decent ones I've found so far.
the dragon monk. The shaman isn't too bad off for getting a drake. Definitely some good stuff worth looking at for sorcerers and bloodragers
Looking at it... was there anything good from this legacy of dragons book?
...
I liked the Expanded Bloodlines, the Draconic Heritage Human alternate racial trait, and the new Improved Familiars.
Hermean Potential is a very good buff spell. Reverse IllOmen.