| standaloneghost |
So we all know that the Kineticist is poorly written, but I would like to see what the general consensus is regarding the interaction of these two abilities.
The relevant portion of the ability "Metakinesis" states the following:
When she uses a double kinetic blast, all modifications, such as metakinesis and infusions, apply to both of the blasts, but the kineticist needs to pay the burn cost only once.
Now, Flurry of Blasts allows us to obtain up to a potential SIX blasts, with haste at level 20, via a form infusion. If I were to "Maximize" my blast using Metakinesis, how would it interact with Flurry of Blasts? I only see 3 possible outcomes:
1) It does not apply at all.
2) It applies to two of the blasts, regardless of the maximum amount granted at the time.
3) It applies to all of the blasts granted by Flurry of Blasts.
Literally just thought of this while I was writing it, but technically the Flurry of Blasts is still one "Blast", just an infused one. All of the individual missiles from FoB only get one spell pen check, one saving throw (if against the same target), and you only make one attack roll (if against the same target).
What do you all think?
| PossibleCabbage |
I believe the "double kinetic blasts" clause refers specifically to the ability the kineticist gains at 17th level to use two kinetic blasts in a single turn for a massive amount of burn and is irrelevant to this situation.
The flurry of blast question is just resolved by noting that it's a form infusion, and every blast (basic or composite) can have one form infusion and one substance infusion and as much metakinesis as you care to pay for. But everything that a blast hits (via its form infusion) applies every effect from the substance infusion and whatever relevant metakinesis.
So a maximized flurry of blasts will maximize each hit, just like a grappling cloud blast will attempt to grapple everybody in the cloud or a pushing spray blast will bull rush everything in a 30 foot cone, or a bowling foe throw will attempt to trip one guy by hitting him with another guy. An Empowered Many Throw is can be pretty impressive in the off chance that you have 17 things you want to hit.
| PossibleCabbage |
Feels right to me, not that I like flurry of blasts much to begin with. I'd rather use chain blast, but that's only for electric blasts.
Maximizing a flurry of blasts isn't really a good idea to begin with, since each of your blasts "deal damage as if your kineticist level were 1st (effects or abilities that increase your kinetic blast’s damage don’t apply)". So you make sure your 1d6 comes up 6 every time, I guess?
The real value of Flurry of Blasts is that if you're using trying to land a substance infusion with a debuff that either allows a save or requires a check, hitting somebody multiple times with the flurry gives a penalty to the save/bonus to the check. You're going to want to do that a lot more often than you're going to want to deal 6-10ish damage to a bunch of targets.
Kahel Stormbender
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Yeah, where if you want to deal damage to multiple targets there's far better options. Such as Fan of Flames for fire blasts when dealing with tightly grouped foes, fireball style blasts, cones, and line blast types. Or as I mentioned, chained blast. Sure damage dice goes down by 1d6 with each additional target. But you're still getting some good solid hits in, especially at higher levels. Difference between a 5d6+8 blast and a 4d6+8 blast isn't that great after all. And you can stop chaining when you feel the damage dice dropped below useful levels.
| zza ni |
if flurry of blasts is one blast .can you double quicken it?
" by accepting 4 points of burn, the kineticist can use her kinetic blast twice with the same standard action, or swift action if she also uses metakinesis to quicken the blast"
seem like at level 17 you can use a standard action to double blast and a swift action to double blast. if you use flurry on them will the be 4Xflurry?
cause using the flurry form infusion and adding the "enervating" substance infusion while only paying for them twice for 4 times flurry...you can see where this is going right?
| Saethori |
seem like at level 17 you can use a standard action to double blast and a swift action to double blast. if you use flurry on them will the be 4Xflurry?
At the cost of 11 burn, assuming your substance infusion isn't pushing the cost above what your infusion specialization can cover.
Which is a problem on its own, since a level 20 kineticist is limited to taking a maximum of 6 burn a round. You have to gather power and wipe out your internal buffer, which is quite the demanding price.
Using Metakinesis Master can reduce it to 9 (if you select double) but that still demands either a buffer dip or a full round gathering power.
| CalethosVB |
So you doubled a maximized Flurry of Blasts (4+2+2). 2 is taken care of by Infusion Specialization. Let's assume 1 is taken care of by Metakinesis Specialization. That leaves you with 5 points of Burn a round. You move action Supercharge, bringing you down to 3 Burn a round.
Depending on energy or physical, you get 1d6+1/2×Con or 1d6+1+Con per shot on your blast, then a second blast with the same modifiers.
The best you'll get for damage is 12d6+1+Con total damage assuming everything hits, as you only keep adding d6s instead of the whole damage modifier multiple times.
So for 3 Burn a round, you can deal 12d6+1+Con damage a round, or 73+Con damage a round. Not very interesting.
| Onyx Tanuki |
Wouldn't it actually be 12d6+2+2Con, then, since this is two individual flurries of blasts rather than simply doubling the number of hits you get from the flurry? Not a lot more, granted, and it still doesn't make flurry of blasts an especially viable offensive option but still. Also that means you're exposing the enemy to any substance infusions applied to it twice, but of course that's more burn you're spending.
Honestly if you're trying to stack multiple instances of a substance onto an enemy, I'm fairly sure doubling a regular blast would be a far better option, or else making a full attack with kinetic blade/whip/fist. If it's damage you're shooting for, empowered/maximized/double might be better. Assuming no infusions are applied and you've put metakinesis master into one of these, that's 6 burn on a simple or 7 on a composite. You could gather for 2 off, and if you have internal buffer left over, use a point of that as well, reducing you to 3 or 4 burn. In doing that, you're dealing 210+3Con on a simple blast or 420+3Con on a composite (reduced to 180+1.5Con or 360+1.5Con for energy) assuming both blasts connect. Or you could just use a simple empowered/maximized for free with gather power, or a composite empowered/maximized for 1 burn, and you'll be dealing half the above numbers, which is still better than you'd be getting out of a maximized/double flurry of blasts.
Personally, flurry of blasts is really best if you just want to be extra-sure your enemy gets slammed with your substance or if you want to push them as far away as possible with pushing infusion. Wwith a simple blast with flurry and pushing, you could pump pushing up enough to push 20 ft., and then add 25 ft. to the push by hitting a foe, so you're able to bull rush someone 45 ft. for free. If you're willing to take the burn for double and gather power, this becomes 90 ft. This, of course, assumes everything hits. And I'd think by 20th you've go better things to do than push enemies around, but it very well could come in handy. I dunno.