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Okay, so any group or type of creature with an agenda.
Zodiac Dragons, all 13, and CR 21-25, that would be cool.
One of the most under-represented areas of the world in my monster collection is Siberia, and to a slightly lesser extent Mongolia as well. Does anyone have any Siberian or Mongolian monsters that they'd be willing to share?
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One of the most under-represented areas of the world in my monster collection is Siberia, and to a slightly lesser extent Mongolia as well. Does anyone have any Siberian or Mongolian monsters that they'd be willing to share?
Hrm, well, putting aside the olgoi-khorkhoi, which we already got... (although some of the creatures that debuted in Mystery Monsters Revisited could do with a reprint in a full Bestiary)
There's Agdy, an Evenki deity said to be, "A ferocious bird with wings of steel." But Siberian myth is a varied affair, and I don't speak any Russian or Yu'Pik or Yakuts, or Evenki, or (insert a formidable array of languages here) to go fishing for new creatures in untranslated documents from a blisteringly broad collection of cultures.
There IS the kainyn-kutho/irkuiem "God-Bear" (and heaven knows, Pathfinder could give bears a bit more love in the "fearsome monster" arena...)
The Almas (Mongol Sasquatch, to be brief and rather crude in its description)
The Wikipedia stub of Odqan has some possibility.
From the Üliger (Mongol folk epic) entry: "Üligers generally tell the legends of mythological and historical heroes. Common as the villain in the üliger is a monster with several heads, known as the "manggus," whom the hero consistently defeats."
I agree, could use some more powerful bear monsters.
Thanks for the list Cole. I think a Kainyn-Kutho would be really cool as well. Bears monsters do exist in mythology, but there aren't nearly as many of them as I would have thought. And I don't blame you for not wanting to start digging through documents. Siberia is just a large and culturally diverse area I have little representation for. Agdy, Almas, Odqan, and Manggus all seem to have potential.
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I've been watching Legion on FX, and...
I could see it as a template!
More true dragon ideas:
Cataclysmic Dragons (Hurricane, Tsunami, Earthquake, Eruption and Sandstorm).
Nature Dragons (Wood, Thorn, Blight, Venom and Wild).
Manufactured Dragons (Cyber, Steampunk, Forged, Alchemical and Golem).
NPC Codex 2, please.
I'm sure the NPC Codex 2 isn't going to be included in B7 or in Bestiary 8, 9 and 10.
I will take advantage of you mistake and post a product suggestion here.
Races Codex, with NPCs from the many different 0HD races in ARG.
- Aasimar
- Catfolk
- Dhampir
- Fetchling
- Grippli
- Ifrit
- Kitsune
- Merfolk
- Nagaji
- Oread
- Samsaran
- Sylph
- Suli
- Svirfneblin
- Tengus
- Tiefling
- Undine
- Vanara
- Vishkanyas
- Wayangs
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New category of true dragons.
Dragons of Philosophies/Ideals- Holy(NG), Dark(NE), Chaos(CN), Axiom(LN), Karma(N).
New category of true dragons.
Dragons of Philosophies/Ideals- Holy(NG), Dark(NE), Chaos(CN), Axiom(LN), Karma(N).
Vile would probably be a bit better of a name than Dark for NE, but otherwise I like the suggestion.
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I really don't know how I overlooked this website before, but dragon and mythology fans rejoice.
Orange Dragon, Yellow Dragon, Indigo Dragon, Violet Dragon, Infrared Dragon, Ultraviolet Dragon, X Dragon, γ Dragon, Microwave Dragon, and Radio Dragon.
Stereo Dragon, Audio/Visual Dragon
Dragons, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and anything else without 2 dimensional designations (fire, sylvan, mountain, shadow, etc.). You know like actual creatures in the real world.
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Creatures that can change into musical instruments would be interesting. Like a fey that change into a singing golden harp, a silvery magical beast that change into a silver flute, A type of troll that change into wooden or stone war drums, etc.
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As for the group of true dragons I mentioned earlier.
Holy
-Looks- A glowing white dragon with feathered wings, has glowing white or gold eyes.
-Breath Weapon- White flames with glowing feather like sparks of light- deals good damage.
Special- Has a lot of powers based on good, healing, and protection. Any spell with the good subtype is on it's spells list.
Dark
-Looks- Black with red markings and grey underbelly, has glowing red or orange eyes.
-Breath Weapon- Black flames with ghostly images of death that deal evil damage.
-Has a lot powers based on evil, darkness, and death. Any spell with the evil subtype is on it's spell list.
Chaos
-Looks- Color and minor appearance changes at random, may have two heads, has glowing eyes of mixed colors.
-Breath Weapon- Multi-colored flames with random distorted matter dealing chaos damage.
-Has a lot of powers based on chaos, destruction, and freedom. Any spell with the chaos subtype is on it's spell list.
Axiom
-Looks- Regal metallic colors in uniform patterns, has glowing eyes of silver or copper color.
-Breath Weapon- Silver flames with images of metallic gears dealing law damage.
Special- Has a lot of powers based on law, society, building, and invention. Any spell with the law subtype is on it's spell list.
Karma
-Looks- Like a dragon made of jade with glowing green or blue eyes.
-Breath- Green flames with karmic symbols that deal force damage.
-Special- Has a lot of powers based on ki, luck, balance, and of course karma.
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On the subject of five-man bands of dragons, it might be cool to see a group of five fully marine dragons. Perhaps a Coral Dragon, Coastal Dragon, Pelagic Dragon, Deepwater Dragon, and maybe one from Arctic waters, not sure what that one would be called.
That works.
2 new skeletons.
Rimed Skeleton. Take a burning skeleton and substitute frost and frost damage for all mention of fire. It's vulnerable to fire but gets immunity to cold back. The descriptive fluff is all the bones are coated with clear ice. When it moves you can hear the sound as the ice cracks and reforms.
Dragon's tooth skeleton. A specially enchanted dragons tooth is placed among bones. Possibly planted in an ancient battlefield. It assembles a skeleton that functions like a bloody skeleton, but doesn't look like one. It can reattach lost parts, held together by the tooth. It has animal intelligence so it can take simple orders. The tooth has to be permanently enchanted with animate dead, and 500 gp worth of onix. Magic to destroy has to be centered on the tooth or else it will find other bones. This is loosely based on the skellys in the original Jason and the Argonauts.
2 new skeletons.
Rimed Skeleton. Take a burning skeleton and substitute frost and frost damage for all mention of fire. It's vulnerable to fire but gets immunity to cold back. The descriptive fluff is all the bones are coated with clear ice. When it moves you can hear the sound as the ice cracks and reforms.
Dragon's tooth skeleton. A specially enchanted dragons tooth is placed among bones. Possibly planted in an ancient battlefield. It assembles a skeleton that functions like a bloody skeleton, but doesn't look like one. It can reattach lost parts, held together by the tooth. It has animal intelligence so it can take simple orders. The tooth has to be permanently enchanted with animate dead, and 500 gp worth of onix. Magic to destroy has to be centered on the tooth or else it will find other bones. This is loosely based on the skellys in the original Jason and the Argonauts.
Spartalos, the dragon's tooth skeleton you suggested. Not exactly with the same abilities, however.
Spartalos, the dragon's tooth skeleton you suggested. Not exactly with the same abilities, however.2 new skeletons.
Rimed Skeleton. Take a burning skeleton and substitute frost and frost damage for all mention of fire. It's vulnerable to fire but gets immunity to cold back. The descriptive fluff is all the bones are coated with clear ice. When it moves you can hear the sound as the ice cracks and reforms.
Dragon's tooth skeleton. A specially enchanted dragons tooth is placed among bones. Possibly planted in an ancient battlefield. It assembles a skeleton that functions like a bloody skeleton, but doesn't look like one. It can reattach lost parts, held together by the tooth. It has animal intelligence so it can take simple orders. The tooth has to be permanently enchanted with animate dead, and 500 gp worth of onix. Magic to destroy has to be centered on the tooth or else it will find other bones. This is loosely based on the skellys in the original Jason and the Argonauts.
For a slightly closer analogue to the myth of Cadmus and the Dragon's Teeth, there's also the Udaeus.
Personally that is how I wish all the outsider groups was set up. Just one creature for each CR from 1-20, so every outsider group got 20 creatures. But that boat has long sailed.
We have the aasimar, the tiefling, the dhampir and the skinwalker and geniekin, and even the nagaji. Yet, we have no dragon or fey blooded humanoid heritage races. I suppose Legacy of Dragons and Legacy of the First World books made a true dragon descendant race a little unlikely to happen... =/
There are also formians and thriaes. I'm sure we could have cool playable 0HD varieties of these insect like monstrous humanoids.
So this time my wish is for 0HD races based on formians, thriaes, true dragons and the fey.
a true dragon descendant race a little unlikely to happen...The Kobold Dignity and Pride Association's lawyers will be with you shortly.
I will never openly admit it...
Now that we actually know what demigods/quasi-deities made it into Bestiary 6, do you all even want to see more demigod level creatures in Bestiary 7?
If you don't, why?
If you do, as I do, which of these powerful creatures would you like to see the most?
I'm voting for all the four Elemental Lords. They are a really small group and we already have Ymeri's stat block.
The Four Elemental Lords would be good. I would also vote for the Queens of Darkness, the Goblin Hero Gods, and the Eldest. I'd like to see the other demigods fleshed out a bit more before we get there stats.
Isn't Baba Yaga basically a maxed out NPC with class levels and mythic ranks, and some extra bits? To me that doesn't seem all that appropriate for a Bestiary, but maybe some sort of Golarion-focused Villain Codex.
The Four Elemental Lords would be good. I would also vote for the Queens of Darkness, the Goblin Hero Gods, and the Eldest. I'd like to see the other demigods fleshed out a bit more before we get there stats.
Isn't Baba Yaga basically a maxed out NPC with class levels and mythic ranks, and some extra bits? To me that doesn't seem all that appropriate for a Bestiary, but maybe some sort of Golarion-focused Villain Codex.
Aren't the Goblin Hero Gods gods? I didn't know they were demigods.
+1 for the Queens of the Night and the Eldest.
I suppose Baba-Yaga must be the only NPC like character that would be suitable for a Bestiary as she is... Baba-Yaga.
The Four Elemental Lords would be good. I would also vote for the Queens of Darkness, the Goblin Hero Gods, and the Eldest. I'd like to see the other demigods fleshed out a bit more before we get there stats.
Isn't Baba Yaga basically a maxed out NPC with class levels and mythic ranks, and some extra bits? To me that doesn't seem all that appropriate for a Bestiary, but maybe some sort of Golarion-focused Villain Codex.
Aren't the Goblin Hero Gods gods? I didn't know they were demigods.
+1 for the Queens of the Night and the Eldest.
I suppose Baba-Yaga must be the only NPC like character that would be suitable for a Bestiary as she is... Baba-Yaga.
IIRC, James Jacobs has stated that the Goblin Hero Gods are demigod level (can't easily check how many domains they give out right now, but that would be another way to double check).
Rulewise, how do demigods are statted? Do they have high mythical ranks to define their divinity?
Look, I come from 3.5 where deities and demigods were statted, BUT with a unique subtype-like set of abilities that made CR impossible to determine.
Another vote for Eldest, the Psychopomp ushers, Protean Lords and no more Great Old Ones, I know JJ is a big fan of them but that doesn't mean everyone else is and they always provoke asinine arguments about how Cthulu should simply melt anyones mind who looks upon him and that great old ones should simply be un-fight-able.
Surely if we're getting a surplus of anything it should be Demon lords aren't there supposed to be more demons than every other outsider combined a few GOOs is fine but I don't see why they're becoming the most featured high CR catagory when they aren't even related to the main pantheon. Especially when so many potential areas fro high CR creatures remain untapped.
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Half- Minotaur as a PC race.
Eh... GOOs have been part of Pathfinder from the word go, but I hardly think they're "the most featured high CR category" when there's a grand total of six across two actual bestiaries released years apart, with the others being featured in unlikely-to-be-reprinted form in the backmatter of a Lovecraftian Adventure Path.
Pretty sure we have as many kaiju or Empyreal Lords as we do Great Old Ones in the bestiaries. We definitely have more Archdevils.
Being part of something from the start and being related to the main pantheon (as in, what I said) are different and unrelated things. Thanks for nitpicking though, really promotes healthy discussion.
They aren't related to the main gods, they aren't tied to any of the 9 dimensions of the outer sphere, almost no-one in the main setting seems to know or care that they exist and almost no-one worships them, not to mention that anyone who does keeps it a secret. Yet they're the most heavily featured group of high CR outsiders... whilst some that actually are tied to the traditional pantheon and the outer planes have yet to be statted at all to my knowledge.
Kaiju are lower CR than the GOOS, the Empyreal Lords were miss statted and represent Angels, Agathions, Azata and Archons rather than simply one group of outsiders. Looking through the 5 bestiaries I own and PSFRD I have found exactly one Devil that might be called an Arch devil and that was the, infernal Duke who is not an arch devil. So if they are somewhere they're not very easy to find, thats for sure. I believe there are some in the 6th bestiary? are there some tucked away in the back of AP?
I certainly don't feel like we have a surplus of them. I don't actually understand the logic of printing more of one group of high CR outsiders when we don't have any representing some other groups (protean for example). With the exception of the Empyreal lords because If I'm correct they represent all the good outsider factions (not to mention the first ones are bodged).
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Being part of something from the start and being related to the main pantheon (as in, what I said) are different and unrelated things. Thanks for nitpicking though, really promotes healthy discussion.
Forgive me for correcting your hyperbole about something you clearly dislike.
But your blind distaste has led you to erroneous conclusions about representation. Ergo, you are not promoting healthy discussion.
Yet they're the most heavily featured group of high CR outsiders... whilst some that actually are tied to the traditional pantheon and the outer planes have yet to be statted at all to my knowledge.
1. They're not Outsiders.
2. Once again, they're not more heavily featured than several other high-CR groups.Kaiju are lower CR than the GOOS
1. Are they not still high-CR?
2. On the GOO side, Yig and Bokrug are CR 27. Kaiju-wise, Mogaru is CR 28. Vorgozen is CR 29, on par with Hastur. Lord Varklops is apparently CR 30, just like Cthulhu. It's pretty much a wash.the Empyreal Lords were miss statted
Do they not still exist as a high-CR category? Do they not have six representatives in Bestiaries, just like the GOOs?
Looking through the 5 bestiaries I own and PSFRD I have found exactly one Devil that might be called an Arch devil and that was the, infernal Duke who is not an arch devil. So if they are somewhere they're not very easy to find, thats for sure. I believe there are some in the 6th bestiary?
All eight non-Asmodeus Lords of the Nine are in B6, along with three Empyreal Lords, three Great Old Ones, four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and four Qlippoth Lords.
are there some tucked away in the back of AP?
If we were talking APs rather than bestiaries, I wouldn't have made the point about the GOOs in the Strange Aeons backmatter. Because,once again, the Lovecraft AP does indeed feature more GOOs, most of whom, once again, we're unlikely to see reprinted.
Most GOOs beyond Lovecraft's personal creations are tied up in murky copyright waters.
I don't think you need to dread Great Old One over-saturation nearly as much as I need to brace myself for more types of giant and dragon that I'll likely never use.
Forgive me for correcting your hyperbole about something you clearly dislike.
It wasn't hyperbole they aren't part of the main pantheon. and I do like them, I'd just like to see other outsiders in the same CR range rather than more of the same.
But your blind distaste has led you to erroneous conclusions about representation. Ergo, you are not promoting healthy discussion.
The irony being that you have been lead to an erroneous conclusion assuming I have a blind distaste. I mean did you bother to read my first comment? No-where in it do I say I don't like GOOs and my objections are made fairly clear. They provoke people into arguing that all GOOs don't need stats because they auto win and we still don't have some outsider factions represented at this CR yet we have a surplus of GOOs which virtually no-one actually worships and are very limited in their campaign application. I think your strawman is damaging healthy discussion.
1. They're not Outsiders.
2. Once again, they're not more heavily featured than several other high-CR groups.
I always get confused by their type because its not consistent and they are from 'outside our cosmos' or something like that I can't remember. In this case I basically meant, demigods.
second only too Devils apparently, and they're the only group of demigods that get representation across two bestiaries, they do not need to be in a third.
1. Are they not still high-CR?
2. On the GOO side, Yig and Bokrug are CR 27. Kaiju-wise, Mogaru is CR 28. Vorgozen is CR 29, on par with Hastur. Lord Varklops is apparently CR 30, just like Cthulhu. It's pretty much a wash.
1. By high CR I meant part of a group of creatures that have CR30s and are demigods. If Varklops get a printed I'll retract my statement until then not really, I think there is a fairly clear distinction between Devils, Demons, GOOs and Empyreal's as they all have CR30 creatures as opposed to the Kaiju, I think this distinction was established in Best 4.
Although I hope he doesn't, I don't particularly crave more Kaiju either when other CR 25+ concepts could be being explored. We have 7 now how many Kaiju can one person need? I mean the spawn of the rovagug all basically do the same thing as well.
Do they not still exist as a high-CR category? Do they not have six representatives in Bestiaries, just like the GOOs?
Are you conveniently ignoring the fact that they represent 4 separate demigod factions because it damages your argument? or do you not feel the distinction matters?
it'd be like saying having 6 demon lords would be equivalent to 6 Empyreal lords. Its clearly an imbalance.
All eight non-Asmodeus Lords of the Nine are in B6, along with three Empyreal Lords, three Great Old Ones, four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and four Qlippoth Lords.
Well that feels excessive there's now 15 demigod representatives from the evil outer planes and 6 from the good ones? Not to mention the Qlippoth lords, which are like nascent demon lords right?
Yeah we need more empyreal lords and don't even get me started on neutral, Chaotic neutral and lawful neutral representation.We definitely don't need 9 Great old ones.
If we were talking APs rather than bestiaries, I wouldn't have made the point about the GOOs in the Strange Aeons backmatter. Because,once again, the Because,once again, the Lovecraft AP does indeed feature more GOOs, most of whom, once again, we're unlikely to see reprinted.
So how many GOOs are there already are, why do you want more? and if you don't why are you arguing with me about not wanting more? Does hyperbole really bother you that much?
Did you consider that Bestiary 6 has been released for less than 2 weeks and is not easily available online yet? That perhaps I was not using hyperbole at all but that like most people I simply don't have access to the absolute newest info?Because,once again, the Lovecraft AP does indeed feature more GOOs, most of whom, once again, we're unlikely to see reprinted.
I see no point at all worrying about the inevitable there will be dragons there will be giants, there have been in every single bestiary unless giants aren't in 6?
GOOs have been in two none consecutive books, its totally possible for them not to make it into the 7 and thus its worth putting on a wish list.
Rulewise, how do demigods are statted? Do they have high mythical ranks to define their divinity?
Look, I come from 3.5 where deities and demigods were statted, BUT with a unique subtype-like set of abilities that made CR impossible to determine.
As someone that is currently designing his own demigods based on Paizo demigod stats, so far demigods are defined by a set of high level shared traits (immunities, resistances, damage reduction, resurrection/immortality, special aura, etc.) combined with unique sets of thematic abilities for each individual. Very similar to how you mentioned - except that their CR is commonly determined, somewhere between 26-30.
The majority of the demigods so far are also capable of interacting with their surrounding - and by that I mean to affect others - only by standing there with their auras (like the Great Old Ones unspeakable presence or the Qlippoth Lords horrific appearance), and failing your DC can mean certain death sometimes (Empyreal Lords have friendly versions of these aura like effects as they are supposed to be used as allies).
Demigods tend to come with amazing spell-like abilities of high level. Some have artifact level gears. Others are even capable of casting any spell thematically tied to them (like Ymeri).
But the most common aspect of the Demigods are indeed their shared traits. You can search for them in the Universal Monster Rules or in their subtype, so it's really easy to create another member of their "pantheon". That hasn't changed from 3.5 I suppose. Traits/subtype are still the thing.
About mythic ranks, demigods are treated as mythic only while they are in their domains/realms (as well as they have even more powerful abilities there), but outside of it they are merely really strong creatures with dozens of appealing special abilities and traits.
Their divinity is roughly defined by the ridiculous high-level of their special abilities (offensively and defensively).
That's a lot of words for what boils down to "I don't like Lovecraft".
Not even remotely close to the point I'm making. I don't like that lovecraft demi gods have 6 representatives whilst the entirety of the good pantheon has 6 statted demigods.
I understand evil needs more representation in these books, I don't understand love craft alone having as much representation as the whole good side of the pantheon combined when we also have, Demons, Devils and the four horsemen, and I don't understand why we needed a second set of love craft demi gods before we got any representation for the Maelstrom, The Axis, the boneyard, the elemental planes, or the first world at all.
And now I don't understand why people insist on strawmanning that.
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That's a lot of words for what boils down to "I don't like Lovecraft".Not even remotely close to the point I'm making. I don't like that lovecraft demi gods have 6 representatives whilst the entirety of the good pantheon has 6 statted demigods.
I understand evil needs more representation in these books, I don't understand love craft alone having as much representation as the whole good side of the pantheon combined when we also have, Demons, Devils and the four horsemen, and I don't understand why we needed a second set of love craft demi gods before we got any representation for the Maelstrom, The Axis, the boneyard, the elemental planes, or the first world at all.
And now I don't understand why people insist on strawmanning that.
Maybe it's because somebody looked at sales of Lovecraft-related material vis a vis material on good/neutral outsiders and did the math.
Not even remotely close to the point I'm making. I don't like that lovecraft demi gods have 6 representatives whilst the entirety of the good pantheon has 6 statted demigods.
I understand evil needs more representation in these books, I don't understand love craft alone having as much representation as the whole good side of the pantheon combined when we also have, Demons, Devils and the four horsemen, and I don't understand why we needed a second set of love craft demi gods before we got any representation for the Maelstrom, The Axis, the boneyard, the elemental planes, or the first world at all.
And now I don't understand why people insist on strawmanning that.
That's obviously because Lovecraft related content is one of the most requested and well received content? Compared to Lovecraft, setting related material isn't so widely known and requested.
That's why we have 6 GOOs in the bestiaries and 6 others in the AP line. Actually, there are only 3 known GOOs who weren't stated yet, a perfect number for including them on B7......
As far as demi-gods go, I would love to see stats for the eldest, protean lords, elemental lords, and primal inevitables.
As for kaiju, I would like to see at least 3 if not more.
As for reprints
APs
Danse Macabre
Buraq
Hadhayush
Azi
Calikang
Blodeuwedd
Clawbat
Stygia
Calathgar
Dweomer Cat
Skirk Nettle
Biloko
Oni(all)
Kami(all)
Gare Linnorm
Chon Chon
Raiju
Tidepool Dragon
Addu
Faceless Whale
Gargiya
Living Rune
Dawn Piper
Mirror Man
Triaxian
Sun Falcon
Cynosphinx
Elder Sphinx
Living Sandstorm
Mummified Animal
Robots
Flood Troll
Living Cave Painting
Inner Sea Bestiary
Ceru
Deadly Mantis
Lashunta
Petrified Maiden
Syrinx
Thin Man
Vetala Vampire
Whirlmaw
Occult Bestiary
Aeon, Synesis
Azura, Vayuphak
Duergar Tyrant
Liavaran Dreamer
Prism Dragon
Psychoplasmic Creature(Behir)
Rakshasa(Amanusya, Avatarana)
Serpantfolk Reclaimer
Shotalashu
Tattoo Guardian
Psychic Vampire
Xulgath
Misc.
Mountain Troll
Hive
Gilmen
Trompe L'Oeil
Waxwork Creature
Strix
Kuru
Ganzi
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Stuff
Chromantic, have you actually seen the table of contents for Bestiary 6 yet? Statements like "If Varklops is printed" and not being aware of the archdevils being in the book (they are mentioned in product description) kind of undercuts your arguments. It feels like kneejerk criticism based on hearsay not facts
I get people not liking Mythos stuff, but the GOOs literally take up 6 pages. The Horsemen, Archdevils, and Qlippoth Lords take up far far more room. Odds are, unless they decide to include the Paizo-created GOOS like Ogresh or Mnar, this will probably be the last GOOs to appear in a rules neutral hardcover Bestiary.
As for kaiju, I would like to see at least 3 if not more.
Lord Varklops has been confirmed for B6 with their latest blog.
I'd like Agmazar to be reprinted and I dunno, Mantraska to be added. I'd like to get them all IMO ;)