What rolls equals an Epic Fantasy

[Lixeon]

I am a newer GM and i am making my own world. I would like it to be an
Epic Fantasy. But I like my players to roll for their stats. So I figure that 4d6 minus the lowest equals around a 20pt game. But what would equal a 25pt game? 5d6 minus the lowest? All suggestions and ideas are welcome. The reason i dont use the point buy is because i just prefer rolls. But here is another question if i do an Epic Fantasy Campaign what changes do i need to make to the monsters in the Bestiary. I know my Npc's i can make by hand but i am more worried about the ones in the Bestiaries. Thanks for the help.

[Arbane the Terrible]

2d6 + 6 for all stats. :D

If you want an even higher-than-usual power level, have you considered the Mythic Rules?

A game can be epic without needed REAL ULTIMATE POWER, just meke sure the things the PCs do have consequences. Let them build, destroy, organize, and lead.

[Brian Turner 355]

yea I've heard of mythic levels but im not sure if im ready for that yet. Okay thanks for help.

[avr]

Add a CR if the character's stats are really high? Or give monsters the advanced template for free.

The thing is, if you negate the high stats in this way it's not going to be epic fantasy, it's going to be normal fantasy.

[Brian Turner 355]

im not sure what you mean by negating high stats?

[Lincoln Hills]

In this context, 'negating' high stats means, roughly, that even straight 18s aren't all that impressive, if all the opponents also have straight 18s.

As far as 'epic' fantasy, you really don't have to do anything to modify your PCs or monsters at all. Instead, focus on the larger scale of threats. If your PCs, to grab a fairly traditional epic plot, know from the start that the thanatotic titans (to pick a big bad monster at random) are engaged in a plot to reduce the PCs' whole world to slavery - and that even that is just Phase One in their plan to overthrow the pantheons - you have an epic story regardless of stats. Even if the PCs are only fighting servants of servants of servants at first, you've set up a high stakes campaign.

[SmiloDan]

Raising the PCs' stats will make them hit more often, for more damage. They will be tougher and more resistant to special attacks (more hit points and better saves and AC). They might have an extra spell or two per day, and the save DCs will be higher.

All these increases will be maybe +1 or +2.

You can add the advanced template to monsters, or just an additional monster or two to each group of monsters, depending on the size of the group and/or their CR relative to the PCs' level.

The main advantage of better rolls and higher point buys is the ability to make competent MAD-classed characters. (MAD=Multiple Ability Dependent) So you can have monks, magi, paladins, inquisitors, etc.

[Boomerang Nebula]

What about instead of upgrading the monsters you just use more of them.

It sounds more epic to me to slay two Dragons than to slay a slightly more powerful Dragon.

[Boomerang Nebula]

For epic stats I would probably go with 3d4+6.

Edit: changed my mind.

[Rub-Eta]

Either you can allow them to use the point-buy system, since you seem so keen on them getting something around a specific point-buy anyway. I really don't see any reason to insist on them rolling their stats if you also want them to roll some specific numbers.

Or just do the '4d6, drop lowest'. Let them re-roll everything if they get under an equivalent 10 or 15 point-buy (this increases the average by a lot).

[Orfamay Quest]

Boomerang Nebula wrote:

What about instead of upgrading the monsters you just use more of them.

It sounds more epic to me to slay two Dragons than to slay a slightly more powerful Dragon.

That's my thought as well. Epic isn't about the numbers, but about the actions. You can get an epic-feeling campaign with characters built with ten points. Just make sure that people have epic things to do.

[Gavmania]

One of the best systems I've seen for using dice rolling for stats is that the GM rolled 2 sets of stats (4d6, drop the lowest) and all players choose one of the sets, set them to which stats they want, adjust for race, etc. This way no one can get a better character because they rolled high - if the GM rolls high, all get access to those high rolls.

I remember playing games where my fighter rolled low for hp and by 4th level he had lower hp than the wizard; while it is less likely online, it remains statistically possible to roll low and be at a disadvantage compared to other characters, which is the disadvantage of rolling. Even re-rolling low results can still give a mediocre character.

[beemer4188]

My GM runs epic fantasy games and we roll 4d6 re-rolling 1's and 2's. We also get max HP every level. The Monsters also get full HP and possibly the advanced template but I'm not sure about the template. A few times we did a "point buy" but we had all stats start at 15 and we could one for one move them, no stats above 18 or below 8. (That was for our dragon slaying campaign and our first combat was an adult black dragon)

[Atarlost]

Primary stats will usually be maxed out or nearly so at any point buy so higher PB just makes less fragile and more rounded characters. Your fighter will have some skills and pass more than one will save in twenty. Your wizard will be able to carry his own backpack and might even be personable.

Maxing monster and NPC HP is reasonable in any case unless your players are using Paizo iconics or similarly terribly built characters, but beyond that you're making more work for yourself deconstructing monsters so you can change their base array. Just applying the advanced template isn't a match for raising PC point buy because that will boost their high stats as well as their low undoing all the benefits epic PB has in helping your PCs survive to become epic.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Lixeon wrote:

I am a newer GM and i am making my own world. I would like it to be an

Epic Fantasy. But I like my players to roll for their stats. So I figure that 4d6 minus the lowest equals around a 20pt game. But what would equal a 25pt game? 5d6 minus the lowest? All suggestions and ideas are welcome. The reason i dont use the point buy is because i just prefer rolls. But here is another question if i do an Epic Fantasy Campaign what changes do i need to make to the monsters in the Bestiary. I know my Npc's i can make by hand but i am more worried about the ones in the Bestiaries. Thanks for the help.

What you'll wind up doing is fudging your rolls, or otherwise tinkering with the process to such a degree that you'll find yourself that you'll simply get results more consistent to what you want by setting a point buy total anyway.

Because as it is, you can't say that 4d6 minus the lowest is going to consistently guarantee you a 20 pt results... especially from players that have outsize bad, or amazingly good luck. Like my old D+D buddy who amazingly rolled 3 18/00 fighters in the same campaign.

You may need to priortize your preference for rolls, vs. the goal you want to achieve.

[Orfamay Quest]

I can't help that this is taking the wrong path.

I'm still not sure what "epic" is supposed to mean to the OP, but I'm seeing a lot of proposals for ways to make the PCs more powerful, followed by ways to make the monsters more powerful, followed by ways to.... I'm reminded of when I was a child and would try to make a peanut butter sandwich with extra bread.... and extra peanut butter. Why not make two sandwiches instead?

Seriously,... rather than trying to tweak level 1 PCs so that they're as powerful as "normal" third level characters, why not run level 3 characters? Similarly, rather than boosting up CR 1 monsters to be CR3, why not just use CR3 monsters.... or two CR1 monsters?

[Atarlost]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

I can't help that this is taking the wrong path.

I'm still not sure what "epic" is supposed to mean to the OP, but I'm seeing a lot of proposals for ways to make the PCs more powerful, followed by ways to make the monsters more powerful, followed by ways to.... I'm reminded of when I was a child and would try to make a peanut butter sandwich with extra bread.... and extra peanut butter. Why not make two sandwiches instead?

Seriously,... rather than trying to tweak level 1 PCs so that they're as powerful as "normal" third level characters, why not run level 3 characters? Similarly, rather than boosting up CR 1 monsters to be CR3, why not just use CR3 monsters.... or two CR1 monsters?

The OP says exactly what he means by epic. He wants the dice equivalent to the PB listed as "epic" in the CRB, namely 25.

Raising level is not the same as raising point buy. They do completely different things. Raising starting level makes characters stronger, allows them to be more minmaxed, and increases the relative strength of strong classes. Raising point buy makes them more rounded because the 18 base stat cap doesn't go away, and raises the relative strength of weak classes.

You won't raise CR by raising PB unless you're starting from something like 0 PB. The advanced template raises every stat by 4 after the base stat limits and is only +1 CR.