my GM is allowing all 3.0, 3.5, and PF its an overpowered game 22 point buy, one big rule during char creation must be a theamed char i wanted to do mine based off grappling
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=928562
im using PF leveling scale slow, gray human, Unchained monk, Fighter Brawler variant
dnd gestalt, sumo style, crab clan
is there any other way i can get a higher grapple?
Bear in mind that one you get to a certain point, increase your bonus to grapple becomes an exercise in pointlessness. Even CR20s usually only have a CMD score in the low-mid 40s and it isn't terribly difficult to get a +30 by level 10 or thereabouts.
That being said, neither the uncharted monk nor the brawler(fighter) is a great choice for grapple characters. The kings of grapple in pathfinder are the Tetori archetype of the chained monk and the Brawler (the class rather than the fighter archetype).
Don't forget the trait: Bred for War and the feat: celestial obedience (Falayna) for a couple easy bonuses to CMB and grapple respectively.
Agreed tetori is king of the Ring, being able to shut down freedom of movement and teleport is amazing.
i still want the things the Tetori archetype gets rid of and from what i saw it add nothing i need
If that's the case then could I suggest the feat Throat Slicer? It allows you to coup de grace a pinned opponent as long as you have a slashing weapon, and I believe that there are feats in 3.5 that allow an unarmed strike to do slashing damage.
Add in snapping turtle style and snapping turtle clutch and you can have some real fun.
Edit: Tiger style is a pathfinder style feat that makes your unarmed strikes do slashing damage, as well as causing bleed.
And the 3.5 feat I believe was in the PHB 2, though I can't recall its name.
Morganstern wrote: If that's the case then could I suggest the feat Throat Slicer? It allows you to coup de grace a pinned opponent as long as you have a slashing weapon, and I believe that there are feats in 3.5 that allow an unarmed strike to do slashing damage.
Add in snapping turtle style and snapping turtle clutch and you can have some real fun.
Edit: Tiger style is a pathfinder style feat that makes your unarmed strikes do slashing damage, as well as causing bleed.
And the 3.5 feat I believe was in the PHB 2, though I can't recall its name.
that does sound fun
2 levels of Constable (Cavalier) Order of the Penitent could add some fun. Grapple on a charge and tie-up w/o a penalty if they're not pinned. Throw in Equipment Trick (Rope): Knotted Weapon to use your rope as a weapon & always have it to tie up.
Umbra22 wrote: i still want the things the Tetori archetype gets rid of and from what i saw it add nothing i need While I do agree that losing flurry of blows and must of the monk's abilities do hurt I'd argue that the Tetori is the hands down single best grapple class you'll find in Pathfinder for it's abilities to Grapple as part of an attack from the grab special, to suppress freedom of movement (Which otherwise makes your grapple build useless until a wizard dispels it), the fact it also prevent teleportation out of the grapple, allows you to negate polymorph effects and retains your dexterity to AC when Grappling.
All in all no amount of feats will make up for those features.
Make sure to get +1 Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists and a Swarmbane Clasp so that you can grapple ghosts and swarms.
Drop Brawler Fighter and go with Hurler/Savage Grappler barbarian instead.
Body Bludgeon is the ultimate grappling technique. Hurler archetype with the Hurling rage talents lets you throw pinned enemies as improvised weapons. Pick up a Belt of Mighty Hurling to use your strength instead of dex for throwing things.
Pick up Iron Rope for the ultimate screw you when you pin a creature.
Anacondas Coils belt gives you Constrict, and lets you take the Final Embrace feat line.
Serpentine Tattoo adds a free Dirty Trick to any successful unarmed strike, so you can use that to add a status effect before you actually start your grapple. (they're cheap. get more than one.)
With Serpentine Tattoo and Final Embrace Horror, you can strike, grab, dirty trick, grapple and constrict as one attack, adding Blind and Shaken conditions for free.
Add in Hamatula Strike and a Flying Talon and you can initiate grapples at reach.
A sized-up Flying Talon with Effortless Lace is still a one handed piercing weapon, but it gives you a larger reach.
The grapple rules state that when you grapple something at reach, that creature gets immediately pulled adjacent to you.
Now you're Scorpion. GET OVER HERE!
Take Combat Reflexes, and do all your grab-grapple-constrict nonsense with Attacks of Opportunity. At the end of the AoO, let them go and drop them next to you. Take your next AoO against the next sucker who tries to move near you. Yank them in, tie them in a knot and drop them in the same square as the last sucker. Now they are Squeezing until they can manage to move again.
Make a pile of baddies while it isn't even your turn. Give them all Shaken and Sickened to tank their saves.
Kindly ask your friendly wizard to cast some version of Create Pit.
Laugh, then take your actual turn.
Doomed Hero wrote:
Anacondas Coils belt gives you Constrict, and lets you take the Final Embrace feat line.
This is no longer true. The prerequisites for Final Embrace were changed some time ago.
Final Embrace wrote: Prerequisite: Str 13, Int 3; naga, serpentfolk, or creature that has the constrict special attack; base attack bonus +3. Anaconda's Coils grants constrict. While wearing it a character qualifies.
If they take it off, or it gets dispelled, they could no longer use the feat. Once the belt was back they would immediately be able to use Final Embrace again.
errata wrote: In the Final Embrace feat, in the Prerequisites entry, after “special attack” add “as a racial ability”. I did say it was changed. Did you think I was making that up? What you're suggesting used to be possible. It no longer works.
I see it now.
It is on this srd
It is not on this one
Guess the Final Embrace feats of into the dust bin with Crane Wing, Bodyguard, The Scarred Witch Doctor and all the other stuff that have been errata's with the nerf bat.
Equipment Trick (Rope) lets you tie up from grappled with a -5 Penalty only, so with greater grapple you can shut down People in 1 round and have a Chance to succeed. My GM aggreed when I explained I have a rope bound losely to each arm, the end of the rope fixed between ankles and a wristband so I have my Hands free but can grab the rope with little effort (making it a Swift Action - I think it was a free in my Group). Hourseruled though, but mechanically it works similar to a spring loaded wrist sheath.
Prof. Löwenzahn wrote: Equipment Trick (Rope) lets you tie up from grappled with a -5 Penalty only, so with greater grapple you can shut down People in 1 round and have a Chance to succeed. My GM aggreed when I explained I have a rope bound losely to each arm, the end of the rope fixed between ankles and a wristband so I have my Hands free but can grab the rope with little effort (making it a Swift Action - I think it was a free in my Group). Hourseruled though, but mechanically it works similar to a spring loaded wrist sheath. Ninjutsu has a whole series of techniques that work similarly.
A slip knot was loosely looped around the wrist. The rest of the line ran up the ninja's sleeve, with the coil kept in a large pocket on the inside of the gi, or just tucked into the belt beneath the gi.
The weapon was deployed simply by reaching into the sleeve with the other hand and pulling the slip knot off the wrist.
Nearly all close combat techniques that use chains, kusari-gama, manriki-gusari, double-chain kama, flying talon, rope dart or any other flexible weapon can also be used with a simple rope.
Modern martial artists are taught the techniques using belts or neck ties.
Umbra22 wrote: help breaking my grappler I can help. Broken? it will be shattered. The chards will be ground into dust.
First, Race. Take a look at Half-Giant in Psionics Unleashed, the Complete Psionics Handbook, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. You will be treated as size Large for the purposes of Grappling. Also, take a look at the Jovian races in Bastards and Bloodline: a Half-Fire Giant starts off as Size Large with a +14 Strength. Also, you have just got to look at Thri-Kreen: 4 arms, dude!
Consider a few levels in Psychic Warrior. Even with just 1 level, you can get powers such as Grip of Iron--+4 on Grapple Checks, and Tactical Precognition for +2. Plus the Psionic version of Enlarge Person lets you grow 2 sizes instead of just 1. That's just for starters. Psychic Warriors have scads of self-buffing options that stack with other self-buffing options.
Zabraxis wrote: 2 levels of Constable (Cavalier) Order of the Penitent could add some fun. That. Order of the Penitent is a must-have. Once you have Greater Grapple, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action.
Take at least 4 levels in Alchemist. Take the Tentacle Discovery: +4 Grapple Checks. Take a King Crab Tumor Familiar: +2. Take the Potion Glutton Feat, which lets you drink any potable as a Swift Action. The round prior, cast (or drink an Extract of) True Strike on yourself to get a +20 on your next Grapple, then Move up to your opponent. Then Initiate your Grapple as a Standard Action, Drink your Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, then Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action, benefitting again from the +20 from True Strike. If your GM won't allow this use of a True Strike Extract, then you might take Master Craftsman and make Elixirs of True Strike. Or use the Shared Spells Familiar Ability and the Touch Injection Extract. Have your Familiar put True Strike on you as a Readied Action.
Doomed Hero wrote: Hamatula Strike I love Hamatula Strike. Wear Armor Spikes, and all Attacks with Piercing Weapons will also be doing Armor Spike Damage upon a successful Grapple. Gain Natural Attacks. A Helm of the Mammoth Lord gives you a Gore Attack, which is Piercing. The Feral Mutagen Alchemal Discovery gives you 2 Claws and a Bite. Bite is Piercing. To make your Claws Piercing, you need something like Snake Style + Feral Combat Training. Take a level in White Haired Witch. White Hair gives you a Free Grapple with every hit. Get a Tentacle Cloak 2 Tentacles with Grab. Take a level or so in Hexcrafter Magus and take Prehensile Hair and Nails.
A word about White Hair: when you have Grappled someone in your White Hair, you are not Grappled yourself. You can still make Attacks of Opportunity. Take some kind of Attack of Opportnity Feat such as Snake Fang, Mythic Improved Grapple, Close Quarters Fighting (a 3.0 Feat), or Broken Wing Gambit, and make Attacks of Opportunity against opponents who attempt to Escape your Grapple; make those attacks with you 'Hair, and Grapple and Tie them Up. There is no actual limit as to how many opponents you can have Grappled. Take Great Cleave, and Grapple every adjacent opponent in your Hair as a Standard Action. Take Greater Grapple (and Expert Captor) and Tie Up one of those opponents as a Move Action. Take Rapid Grappler and Tie Up a 2nd as a Swift Action.
Doomed Hero wrote: Make sure to get +1 Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists... so that you can grapple ghosts. Strictly speaking, the AoMF does not enhance Grapple Checks, but it it does enhance Natural Attacks, and if you are Grappling with your Natural Attack, the AoMF will enhance the Grapple Check then.
Doomed Hero wrote: Make sure to get... a Swarmbane Clasp so that you can grapple... swarms. The Swarmbane Clasp does not strictly speaking say it allows you to impose the Grappled Condition upon a Swarm, only inflict damage on it. That being said, the Swarmbane Clasp is pretty awesome, and might be just the thing for your Grappling character to cover his bases. I'm adding Swarmbane Clasp to the shopping list of my characters.
Consider 4 levels in Druid. With Wild Shape and Shaping Focus, you can Polymorph in Huge Animals by level 8. Giant Octopi are size Large: 8 Tentacles, all with Grab and Constrict and a Bite Attack. Mythic Powerful Shape lets you grow a size larger than is normal for your Wild Shape.
There is a 3.5 Prestige Class that is worth a look: Reaping Mauler. When not in control of a Grapple, Reaping Maulers get a extra Grapple Check. In the event of a prolonged Grapple, Reaping Maulers' victims must make 2 Fort Saves every round 1 to avoid unconsciousness, the other to avoid death. Reaping Mauler has a prerequisite the Clever Wrestling Feat, which grants a bonus when Grappling opponents bigger than yourself.
The Pinning Knockout Feat is cool. So is Melee Weapon Mastery, Bludgeoning from the 3.5 Players' Handbook 2.
Some other Magic Items to look at: Armbands of the Brawler, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver, there's and Ioun Stone that grants an Attack Bonus. The Brawling Armor Enchanmtment isn't as nice since it is now a +3 equivalent instead of +1, but it's still cool. There is still the Adhesive Armor Enchantment.
Brawling as weapon enchantment adds the enhancement bonus to CMB.
Is 3rd party stuff allowed?
RaizielDragon wrote: Is 3rd party stuff allowed? Yup, that's what the OP said.
Party time!
Well then: I'm currently running a grappler that I've ran in a few games now. He has evolved a little bit over the years, but my favorite build for him came after the Brawler came out. I agree that Tetoris are the end-all, be-all of grappling because of their ability to get around freedom of movement and teleportation. Giving up Flurry means they HAVE to be amazing at what they are focused on, so I think that's fair.
However, one thing I ran into often when I would try to grapple something is this:
ME: I grapple it (success).
TEAM: We kill it.
DM: It's dead.
ME: I guess I should have just hit it...
Or some variation there of. Basically, it felt like grappling wasn't always the correct answer. Especially for random mooks who were going to die quickly anyway.
Because of this, I felt like the Brawler had the best of both worlds. He is a great grappler, but can also still Flurry if you just need to deal damage (or if you can't grapple).
My current incarnation is a Half-Ogre who took the Monstrous Physique feat at 1st level to become large (in my current campaign, I worked it out with the GM to not actually take up a large-sized space, but also did not gain the reach, and had to spend a trait on Suck In Your Gut; so I count as large for any special modifiers, got the -1 attack and AC, etc). From there, Ogre Crush can give you Constrict, and it would be up to your GM if a racial-specific feat that grants Constrict would qualify you for the Final Embrace string of feats. Other than that, things like Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler, Unfair Grip, etc. round out a good Grapple character. Brawler gives you Maneuver Training for some extra bonuses to Grapple, bonus feats, increased unarmed damage so your grapples deal more damage, close weapon mastery in case you'd prefer to use a weapon but still want to deal increased damage, and you can use Martial Flexibility to dig deep into feats as needed if you want (I gave it up for Mutagenic Mauler because I just wanted the higher Strength from Mutagen, but it also gets some nice bonuses like extra damage, speed, vision, and scent).
You can also add a little flavor if you want. My particular interest when I first came up with the character revolved around the Limb Ripper feat, which works best on a high Str grapple build, hence why I preferred Mutagen. It's basically another way to debuff someone once you have them grappled, and I think adds a lot of interesting flavor as well, as I like the image of a big wrestler type that can literally tear an enemy limb from limb. When the question of what other body parts can you remove with the feat came up, he earned his name Richard Ripper. I normally play him as a big dumb wrestler who likes to wrestle and/or hug people (depending on how dumb and dopey I want him to be). When I get the chance and have nice dice rolls for ability scores, and don't have to tank his Int, I like to play him as much more intelligent and tactical, with an interest in Alchemy (because of the mutagen).
RaizielDragon wrote: Well then: I'm currently running a grappler that I've ran in a few games now. He has evolved a little bit over the years, but my favorite build for him came after the Brawler came out. I agree that Tetoris are the end-all, be-all of grappling because of their ability to get around freedom of movement and teleportation. Giving up Flurry means they HAVE to be amazing at what they are focused on, so I think that's fair.
However, one thing I ran into often when I would try to grapple something is this:
ME: I grapple it (success).
TEAM: We kill it.
DM: It's dead.
ME: I guess I should have just hit it...
Or some variation there of. Basically, it felt like grappling wasn't always the correct answer.
As a player, that seems like an acceptable outocme to me.
Yes, them dying seems acceptable, but then there was no reason for me to have grappled them. If I had hit them instead, they would have died quicker and maybe some other players turn could have been used to go after another enemy or some such.
What I'm getting at is that "grapple them" isn't always the answer, even for a grappling build. Grappling is basically a way to debuff and/or lock down a single enemy, but if that enemy is a weak enough mook, they didn't need debuffing in the first place.
RaizielDragon wrote: Yes, them dying seems acceptable, but then there was no reason for me to have grappled them. If I had hit them instead, they would have died quicker and maybe some other players turn could have been used to go after another enemy or some such. Maybe, but in the end, if your enemies have been defeated and you helped, isn't that what's most important?
RaizielDragon wrote: Grappling is basically a way to debuff and/or lock down a single enemy, but if that enemy is a weak enough mook, they didn't need debuffing in the first place. Actually, higher in this thread, I offered a few methods for building a character that uses Grappling to help against multiple opponents.
RaizielDragon wrote: What I'm getting at is that "grapple them" isn't always the answer, even for a grappling build. I agree. That's why, in the end, I'm not such a big fan of the Tetori. The ability to bypass Freedom of Movement makes the character with 9 levels of Tetori Monk the best Grappler, but being the best Grappler is not the most important thing. You can be a terrifying Grappler with a few feats and abilities. Get those, then get a few more features that make your character well-rounded, perhaps gaining a few features that bridge your Grappling abilities with other aspects of Combat.
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