So I'm going to be playing in a Hell's Vengeance campaign and am thinking about rolling a Mindblade Magus, both for thematic and cool mechanics reasons. The trouble I'm trying to help lessen is probably the biggest problem inherent with the archetype, the +10 defensive casting DC bump from casting spells as psychic spells. I have a high INT (we're doing a 15-point buy and I'm human, so it's an 18 total) and I took Combat Casting with my level 1 feat, but even with that factored in, I would have to roll an 18 just to defensively cast 1st-level spells at level 1. That's clearly not a good thing for me and while I know that's built in to the archetype to keep it from being even more ridiculous than it already is, I'm wondering if there are any other good ways to mitigate this issue, particularly at early levels so I can avoid having to Spellstrike + 5-foot step every time to avoid defensive casting.
Edit: I also forgot to mention that I took Magical Lineage - Shocking Grasp as my non-campaign trait, so I can use the Intuitive Spell Metamagic to ignore the thought component for specifically that spell, but none of my others can get that for (almost) free.
Warding Weapon is helpful.
Also getting reach through a whip, Enlarge Person, or Long Arm.
As a Mindblade you can't follow standard Magus builds. You're a spontaneous caster. You can't apply metamagic like a normal Magus would.
"Casting a standard action metamagic spell spontaneously is a full-round action, and a spell with a longer casting time takes an extra full-round action to cast. The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which can be cast as a swift action."
Your best bet is cast before you get into combat. Look at the debuffing builds which center around spells like Frostbite. Cast it before you get into combat, then repeatedly spellstrike with it.
Warding Weapon is helpful.
Also getting reach through a whip, Enlarge Person, or Long Arm.
Warding weapon sounds very handy, I would just need to purchase a weapon with which I'm proficient to use since I can't maintain more than one weapon from my archetype at a time.
Using a reach weapon is definitely a decent idea, but the problem is my goal is to use a scimitar for the obvious crit threat or starting at level 8, a scythe for the x4 crit bonus to the weapon, since I believe my rogue is getting Butterfly's Sting.
As a Mindblade you can't follow standard Magus builds. You're a spontaneous caster. You can't apply metamagic like a normal Magus would.
"Casting a standard action metamagic spell spontaneously is a full-round action, and a spell with a longer casting time takes an extra full-round action to cast. The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which can be cast as a swift action."
Your best bet is cast before you get into combat. Look at the debuffing builds which center around spells like Frostbite. Cast it before you get into combat, then repeatedly spellstrike with it.
Well, I can't use it with Spell Combat to make a full attack + spell, but I can still use it with Spellstrike since the melee attack is simply being used as the delivery for the spell which is already factored into the spell's casting time, if I'm not mistaken.
Well, I can't use it with Spell Combat to make a full attack + spell, but I can still use it with Spellstrike since the melee attack is simply being used as the delivery for the spell which is already factored into the spell's casting time, if I'm not mistaken.
Correct, this is why I recommended a spell like Frostbite, as it lasts for as many "touches" as you have levels. It's not Shocking Grasp, but it's an effective debuffing tool, and something you can actually handle, which frankly remember, Shocking Grasp is largely useless without Intensify metamagic to break the 5d6 cap. You're already using your metamagic for Intuitive, so you'd need to apply not one, but 2 metamagics to get off a single spell combated Shocking Grasp.
That is simply not good.
Well, I can't use it with Spell Combat to make a full attack + spell, but I can still use it with Spellstrike since the melee attack is simply being used as the delivery for the spell which is already factored into the spell's casting time, if I'm not mistaken.Correct, this is why I recommended a spell like Frostbite, as it lasts for as many "touches" as you have levels. It's not Shocking Grasp, but it's an effective debuffing tool, and something you can actually handle, which frankly remember, Shocking Grasp is largely useless without Intensify metamagic to break the 5d6 cap. You're already using your metamagic for Intuitive, so you'd need to apply not one, but 2 metamagics to get off a single spell combated Shocking Grasp.
That is simply not good.
Not sure on the general legality of this, but the way my group has always used touch spells, the spellcaster casts the spell, then is able to 5-foot step before making the touch attack, so with that being the case, I would be able to get at least one intensified shocking grasp off on an enemy before needing to go Intuitive.
Not sure on the general legality of this, but the way my group has always used touch spells, the spellcaster casts the spell, then is able to 5-foot step before making the touch attack, so with that being the case, I would be able to get at least one intensified shocking grasp off on an enemy before needing to go Intuitive.
Provided you are of course positioned in such a way. Good luck. More likely than not you'll have something smack in your face though, or with reach.
Warding weapon sounds very handy, I would just need to purchase a weapon with which I'm proficient to use since I can't maintain more than one weapon from my archetype at a time.Warding Weapon is helpful.
Also getting reach through a whip, Enlarge Person, or Long Arm.
No Magus, Mindblade or not, uses their primary weapon for the spell. Just keep a dagger handy.
Using a reach weapon is definitely a decent idea, but the problem is my goal is to use a scimitar for the obvious crit threat or starting at level 8, a scythe for the x4 crit bonus to the weapon, since I believe my rogue is getting Butterfly's Sting.
Then I would consider using Enlarge Person or Long Arm.
Not sure on the general legality of this, but the way my group has always used touch spells, the spellcaster casts the spell, then is able to 5-foot step before making the touch attack, so with that being the case, I would be able to get at least one intensified shocking grasp off on an enemy before needing to go Intuitive.Well, I can't use it with Spell Combat to make a full attack + spell, but I can still use it with Spellstrike since the melee attack is simply being used as the delivery for the spell which is already factored into the spell's casting time, if I'm not mistaken.Correct, this is why I recommended a spell like Frostbite, as it lasts for as many "touches" as you have levels. It's not Shocking Grasp, but it's an effective debuffing tool, and something you can actually handle, which frankly remember, Shocking Grasp is largely useless without Intensify metamagic to break the 5d6 cap. You're already using your metamagic for Intuitive, so you'd need to apply not one, but 2 metamagics to get off a single spell combated Shocking Grasp.
That is simply not good.
It's legal. You can take a 5' step or even a move action between casting and delivering a spell with Spellstrike. But I'm going to agree with Heretek on Intuitive Spell being terrible for a Mindblade. Action economy is central to the success of a Magus. It's almost never worthwhile to give that up.
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Not sure on the general legality of this, but the way my group has always used touch spells, the spellcaster casts the spell, then is able to 5-foot step before making the touch attack
Yes, that is entirely legal. It is also a good way to play any Magus who has problems casting defensively.
I have a high INT (we're doing a 15-point buy and I'm human, so it's an 18 total) and I took Combat Casting with my level 1 feat, but even with that factored in, I would have to roll an 18 just to defensively cast 1st-level spells at level 1. That's clearly not a good thing for me
Basically, on a mindblade you should forget about casting defensively. It's just not going to work reliably for you, even at a big investment.
Instead, use other tricks. As people have suggested, find a way to get reach. Or, use the 5' shuffle mentioned above. Or, use spells like Mirror Image and Greater Invis to say "screw OAs, you can't hit me anyways".
It's a good archetype, it just needs different tactics than the default Magus.
Hmmm so is there just no real way to make continuous Spellstriking viable for Mindblades at low-levels then? Warding Weapon will become useful fairly quickly, but the short duration for the first few levels limits its use.
Instead, use other tricks. As people have suggested, find a way to get reach. Or, use the 5' shuffle mentioned above. Or, use spells like Mirror Image and Greater Invis to say "screw OAs, you can't hit me anyways".
It's a good archetype, it just needs different tactics than the default Magus.
Reach definitely seems to be the strongest candidate for me at the moment, particularly given the archetype's ability to spawn whatever usable simple or martial weapon I want. I may have to just dance around using reach weapons until 8 when I can throw in Scythe use in conjunction with our rogue's use of Butterfly's Sting.
This Magus guide outlines several ways of getting reach.
I actually already had the Giantitp.com post you made with the guide open in another tab, but thanks!
Worship Nethys, by doing a ritual once a day you get a +4 to concentration checks.
That... is actually not a bad idea. Since that comes from the Inner Sea Gods book and the DM for this campaign considers it a splatbook, I'll have to decide if the rest of the book is worth it to me (we're only allowed one splatbook in addition to all non-splatbooks from which we can draw feats, traits, spells, etc.)
Incidentally, Intensified Shocking Grasp caps at an average of 35 damage at level 10. By 10, Frostbite is ~13.5 per hit, and activates on every hit. So with just 3 strikes on a full attack, you're beating Shocking Grasp damage without even using metamagic or even necessarily Spell Combat if it was already on.
If you go the Frostbite route, have a backup for targets that are not subject to non-lethal. Mind you I usu go Frostbite because I prefer non-lethal attacks :)
Good point. I like Chill Touch as a backup. Multiple attacks, deals lethal damage to non-undead, and panics undead.
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Incidentally, Intensified Shocking Grasp caps at an average of 35 damage at level 10. By 10, Frostbite is ~13.5 per hit, and activates on every hit. So with just 3 strikes on a full attack, you're beating Shocking Grasp damage without even using metamagic or even necessarily Spell Combat if it was already on.
Yes. Somebody made a graph of this, but the rule of thumb is that when you have Haste active and aren't fighting an uber-AC boss enemy, Frostbite outdamages Shocking Grasp. You can also use Rime Spell for a free added debuff.
Perhaps surprisingly, very little in the game is immune to non-lethal damage, except of course for undead. So when you do this, invest in your knowledge skills so you know which ones.
