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Ok, to put this in context I have done 2 PFS sessions with this monk and he has a little money. I am trying to tweak him slightly and wanted some advice.
1. Thinking of selling my Kama, Nunchaku, Siangham and shuriken and getting a monk's spade and a rope dart. Spade to minimise the number of weapons I have on me (I feel like I must clang when I walk) and rope dart because it has twice the range and twice the damage of a shuriken.
2. Trying to decide between a wand of mage armor, or bracers of armor +1. The wand could also be short term replaced with pots of mage armor until I have the PP for the wand. I have already spent 2 of my 3 PP so far on a wand of cure light wounds. My thinking is +4 armor is better than +1 and the 1 hour duration is not overly onerous.
3. I am also looking at switching out Improved Initiative or jabbing style, but otherwise I am fairly happy with his performance thus far.
1. Monk's Spade is cheap enough and does a good job for what you need it to.
2. Mage's Armor would be the smart choice, but I'd always pick Bracers.
3. Both feats are good. I assume you went Human and are looking forward for your 3rd level feat - make it Weapon Focus, so you can go Jabbing Dancer > Power Attack > Jabbing Master.
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Corset of Delicate Moves is 2000g, but enables you to spend a move action for a Swift action. Being able to switch Styles on the fly could really be handy for a monk.
Yes, sell the weaponry you're not using. Monks don't necessarily need weapons- and there are so few monk weapons out there.
Personally, investing in a single Tonfa can help with fighting defensively. [Well, so can the rope dart, but still.]
The one-hour Mage armor is nothing to scoff at- most times, you can run though most scenarios on one or two charges.
Alternatively, get a wand of Shield- blocks magic missiles, and doesn't override the Bracers +1 AC bonus.
Since this is a PFS character-
try looking for a scenario called Bronze House Reprisal (#7-03), though it's a tedious mission- one reward is worth saving for, while playing a monk.
At higher levels, when you get more Stunning Fists a day, Handwraps of Blinding Ki @10k g is worthwhile if you plan to use it often during flurries.
Else, people may say get Deliquescent Gloves for the added Acid damage
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Just so you know, bronze house reprisal can go very badly if your party has poor skills or tries to muscle through when diplomacy fails. Several local groups have come out of it with -5 prestige. I'm my opinion it was the worst scenario of the season and I wouldn't recommend to anyone regardless of possible reward.
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First, if you are using a a Monk weapon only get it as long as its damage is equal or better than your fists at present. No reason to have a d6 weapon when youre fists already do that. Many bonuses the weapons grant dont benefit from bonuses your fists will eventually get.
There is an interesting build of a Monk I know. Get Crane Style feat early and fight defensively. Aldori Caution is a trait that Gives another +1 AC while fighting defensively, so thats -2 hit +4 Ac. Thats a better gain than Combat Expertise by alot
Pick multiclass at level 2 in anything that can use Simple weapons at least and get the Sansetsukon. Its a Monk weapon with D10 damage and raises your AC when fighting defensively.
You get a d8+str damage with 2 attacks at level 1.
It goes to d10+str with 2 attacks at level 2.
Investigator is pretty good to multiclass into as it gives the monk alot of options with skills, extracts, and trapfinding.
the Unchained Monk just starts level 1 with ALL Monk weapons proficient, higher BAB, and a Bonus Feat(Crane Style level 1 easy). so you could easily outperform a Fighter at that point with high AC, multiple attacks, and/or more damage per attack .
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Wand of Mage Armor is alot more useful than the Bracers. It costs only 750gp or 2 prestige and gives you 50 hours worth of +4 armor. Bracers of Protection only give a +1 bonus and cost more. Higher quality ones costs alot more. You would need 16,000GP to get the same bonus you can get from a 750gp wand.
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Just so you know, bronze house reprisal can go very badly if your party has poor skills or tries to muscle through when diplomacy fails. Several local groups have come out of it with -5 prestige. I'm my opinion it was the worst scenario of the season and I wouldn't recommend to anyone regardless of possible reward.
very true; i got through it with an Investigator, a Pregen Kinesticist, my Monk stolen away from the other offered table so it would be a legal table, and something else.
And frankly, there are several other quests that can go sour with poor diplomacy skills- though the don't carry a "-5 PP" penalty.
and he's only lvl 2- so running in a 5-9 quest will be awhile.
still, getting a combined Amulet of Natural Armor/Amulet of Might Fist +2 is a monk's wet dream.
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Using a monk weapon over the unarmed strike has some advantages. You can still flurry with a single weapon and magic weapons are about half as expensive as an amulet of mighty fists, so you will get those bonuses faster. Using a weapon keeps your neck slot open for something good like an amulet of natural armor. And magic weapons can go up to a combined bonus of +10, while the amulet is capped at 5.
I think that the advantage of flurrying with a weapon was using it two handed and getting more damage, alternate materials and faster enchantment.
I dont know what you mean by "alternate materials and faster enchantment."
I didnt know you could combine flurry of blows with the two-handed weapon bonus, but now that I look at it there really are alot of combos that are available as they are not stated to be incompatible with Flurry. Nothing to stop you from using Power Attack in Flurry.
Mmm, d10+str+3 and two attacks. Now just add Improved Critical for 17-20 crit range.
Unchained flurry works well with a two hander. Old flurry only gets the two handed bonus for power attack.
First, if you are using a a Monk weapon only get it as long as its damage is equal or better than your fists at present. No reason to have a d6 weapon when youre fists already do that. Many bonuses the weapons grant dont benefit from bonuses your fists will eventually get.
There is an interesting build of a Monk I know. Get Crane Style feat early and fight defensively. Aldori Caution is a trait that Gives another +1 AC while fighting defensively, so thats -2 hit +4 Ac. Thats a better gain than Combat Expertise by alot
Pick multiclass at level 2 in anything that can use Simple weapons at least and get the Sansetsukon. Its a Monk weapon with D10 damage and raises your AC when fighting defensively.
You get a d8+str damage with 2 attacks at level 1.
It goes to d10+str with 2 attacks at level 2.Investigator is pretty good to multiclass into as it gives the monk alot of options with skills, extracts, and trapfinding.
the Unchained Monk just starts level 1 with ALL Monk weapons proficient, higher BAB, and a Bonus Feat(Crane Style level 1 easy). so you could easily outperform a Fighter at that point with high AC, multiple attacks, and/or more damage per attack .
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Wand of Mage Armor is alot more useful than the Bracers. It costs only 750gp or 2 prestige and gives you 50 hours worth of +4 armor. Bracers of Protection only give a +1 bonus and cost more. Higher quality ones costs alot more. You would need 16,000GP to get the same bonus you can get from a 750gp wand.
A lot of issues here:
1. Weapons have better critical ranges, can be 2H, can be slashing/piercing, and yes, they are faster to enchant and have alternate materials.
2. Aldori Caution is banned in PFS.
3. Crane Style is very hurtful in a low accuracy class like the UnMonk...
4. And you cannot use a Sansetsukuon along with Crane Style, because it requires a free hand.
5. You never want to multiclass out of UnMonk ever. You get nothing from an Investigator level and you delay advancement in ki powers, AC, etc, etc. Sure you get a ton of skills but you might as well spend a trait on getting the things you want to use.
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Using a monk weapon over the unarmed strike has some advantages. You can still flurry with a single weapon and magic weapons are about half as expensive as an amulet of mighty fists, so you will get those bonuses faster. Using a weapon keeps your neck slot open for something good like an amulet of natural armor. And magic weapons can go up to a combined bonus of +10, while the amulet is capped at 5.
1. What monk doesn't grab Barkskin at 4-5? No AoNA needed.
2. You don't know the Allying weapon monk trick?
You should never put straight + bonus on an Amulet of Mighty Fists as a monk. That's for nat. attack people. You put your extras (Agile/Flaming etc.) on the AoMF and then get an Allying weapon and ally with yourself and put the bonus on your fist/foot. Some GMs will force you to burn an iterative each round on the weapon to 'wield' it (silliness in my opinion - but expect table variation) but by level 8 your last iterative probably won't hit anyway.
If you don't ever want to deal with the iterative, you can get an Allying body wrap of mighty strikes, but that costs more and uses up your body slot. (Though still better than trying to put everything on the AoMF.)
An Allying +1 weapon & AoMF +1 together are cheaper than an AoMF +2, they max out at +10 combined, and eventually the Allying +5 & AoMF +5 combined are actually slightly cheaper than a +10 weapon.
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5. You never want to multiclass out of UnMonk ever. You get nothing from an Investigator level and you...Eh? You sure, never?
Well, I guess I more multiclassed into it, considering I only dipped one level into it. I did start with the monk level, though.
Yeah, that's a different ball of wax. The Umonk is a great one level dip, but a primarily Umonk classed character doesn't gain much from dipping out of it. (If PFS - you gained 1hp by having it be your first level too.)
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There is a notable exception, in that a one level dip in crusader cleric grants you all cleric wand use without UMD, a domain, and crusaders flurry if you want to flurry a non-monk weapon. It's still probably not worth it, but it does let you flurry a 18-20 crit range weapon, which is great with ki leach.
There is a notable exception, in that a one level dip in crusader cleric grants you all cleric wand use without UMD, a domain, and crusaders flurry if you want to flurry a non-monk weapon. It's still probably not worth it, but it does let you flurry a 18-20 crit range weapon, which is great with ki leach.
Yeah but it pushes ki leech, Imp. Critical and the extra Flurry attacks back by 1 level so it's doubtful whether its a GREAT decision and not something that's just alright.
Personally I just feel like I'm always rushing for the next level because I have so many good stuff ahead.
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I think that the advantage of flurrying with a weapon was using it two handed and getting more damage, alternate materials and faster enchantment.
I dont know what you mean by "alternate materials and faster enchantment."
I didnt know you could combine flurry of blows with the two-handed weapon bonus, but now that I look at it there really are alot of combos that are available as they are not stated to be incompatible with Flurry. Nothing to stop you from using Power Attack in Flurry.
Mmm, d10+str+3 and two attacks. Now just add Improved Critical for 17-20 crit range.
Alternate materials to over come DR. Cold iron, silver, and adamantine. Because weapons are cheaper the enchant you can get you adamantine temple short to +3 earlier and overcome all DR but alignment.
With unmonk the attack would be d10+1.5str+1.5power attack. With a better crit range.
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Alternate materials to over come DR. Cold iron, silver, and adamantine. Because weapons are cheaper the enchant you can get you adamantine temple short to +3 earlier and overcome all DR but alignment.
While there are advantages to a Umonk using a weapon - that's not one of them. DR differences end up being a wash between weapon & unarmed. I seriously doubt that you'll be able to afford a +3 weapon before level 7 when their unarmed strike counts as silver & cold iron as long as they have 1 ki point.
Adamantine is nice to get earlier, but unarmed can go through Lawful which is also nice. Harness is nice though for the few times it comes up.
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I respectfully disagree. I see your point but level 1-7 you have better DR coverage (carry cheap extra weapons). Then let's say you get a +3 weapon at level 9 on your adamantine weapon you have better coverage until level 16. Lawful is good to have that I will grant you. And with either case you can use and oil of bless weapon to overcome the most common alignment DR/good. There are also damage types to deal with and I would say weapons have the advantage in dealing with BSP DR.
I would give the coverage edge to the weapons but I think it is close enough that it can go to personal preference.
Actually i have good experiences with UC monk and UC rogue combined.
You can also have a very good build with crane style there:
-race: halfling
-UC rogue 1-4 levels
-rest UC monk
-crane style line + cautious fighter
A lot of issues here:1. Weapons have better critical ranges, can be 2H, can be slashing/piercing, and yes, they are faster to enchant and have alternate materials.
Ive encountered all of 1 enemy in Pathfinder that has had any weapon type damage reduction.
2. Aldori Caution is banned in PFS.
3. Crane Style is very hurtful in a low accuracy class like the UnMonk...
Unchained Monk is Full BAB class. Also, nothing to stop you from getting magical monk weapons.
4. And you cannot use a Sansetsukuon along with Crane Style, because it requires a free hand.
It does not say that in the feat description, so where did you hear that from?
5. You never want to multiclass out of UnMonk ever. You get nothing from an Investigator level and you...
Multiclassing is actually pretty good if you use retraining rules to get out of them once they are no longer necessary. Not much to stop you from removing those Monk levels for a higher level Investigator...or the the other way around, heh.
Bottom Line, Sansetsukon is probably the best thing you can get early on.
... quarterstaff of entwined serpents as a backup weapon...
That´s certainly a good choice once you can afford it.
I recommend a cold iron Khakkhara though. Two-handed with 1.5 STR and 1d8x3 iconic monk weapon.
Immovable rods are incredible equipment too. Flying foe? Attach immovable rod and stand on it, using a ki trick, then attack.
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Ok, to put this in context I have done 2 PFS sessions with this monk and he has a little money. I am trying to tweak him slightly and wanted some advice.
1. Thinking of selling my Kama, Nunchaku, Siangham and shuriken and getting a monk's spade and a rope dart. Spade to minimise the number of weapons I have on me (I feel like I must clang when I walk) and rope dart because it has twice the range and twice the damage of a shuriken.
2. Trying to decide between a wand of mage armor, or bracers of armor +1. The wand could also be short term replaced with pots of mage armor until I have the PP for the wand. I have already spent 2 of my 3 PP so far on a wand of cure light wounds. My thinking is +4 armor is better than +1 and the 1 hour duration is not overly onerous.
3. I am also looking at switching out Improved Initiative or jabbing style, but otherwise I am fairly happy with his performance thus far.
1. I'd get a Temple Sword or Sansetsukon
2. I'd get a Wand of Mage Armor, let someone with UMD or the spell on their list cast it on you every hour inside a dungeon, and otherwise at the start of combat. Save the bracers of armor until you can afford a +4
3. Styles are always fun. Personally I just stick it out with with a low init and I do just fine in combats. Snake Style/Fang is my personal favorite, along with Ascetic Style.
Ascetic Style is banned in Pathfinder Society If what I heard is correct.
Ascetic Style is banned in Pathfinder Society If what I heard is correct.
Probably because it is worded a little too loosely. Using the most liberal interpretation it is very powerful. It reminds me of Wasp Familiar which didn't make it clear that you don't also get the familiar bonus of a scorpion.
In PFS it´s probably not worth investing in bracers of armor at all or untill higher levels. A wand of mage armor, some emergency potions, but also a pearl of power or a runestone of power for mage armor will bring you a very long way.
Instead of bracers of armor, better get high DEX and WIS, a deflection bonus and dodge if you can. Of course some natural armor is nice too.
In PFS it´s probably not worth investing in bracers of armor at all or untill higher levels. A wand of mage armor, some emergency potions, but also a pearl of power or a runestone of power for mage armor will bring you a very long way.
Instead of bracers of armor, better get high DEX and WIS, a deflection bonus and dodge if you can. Of course some natural armor is nice too.
A level 1 potion of mage armor(or any tier 1 spell) is only 50gp. a Monk wouldnt need money for armor, you dont have any. So get one or two potions.
A Wand of level 1 spell is 750gp. Alot more expensive but 50 uses is alot more cost-efficient(it costs as much as 15 potions and has 50 uses. do the math). Wands of Cure Light Wounds are pretty standard for players, and Mage Armor is just one more wand.
Bracers are definitely a long-term thing you shouldnt worry about now. Its too expensive for a small gain. Its meant to stack on top of regular armor, not replace it.
You will probably get 2 prestige points in your first adventure. You turn those in for a wand.
Ok, to put this in context I have done 2 PFS sessions with this monk and he has a little money. I am trying to tweak him slightly and wanted some advice.
The Poster already spent the prestige.
This thread it about changing the equipment he/she started with.
I never saw him say he spent his points. I thought he was talking about gold. In that case, I'd just wait till after the next adventure and get the wand. Maybe blow a few gold on a scroll until then.
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I have played in 2 scenarios. The first we got 1 PP, the second we got 2. I spent 2 PP on a wand of cure light (so I am not a draining jerk to my party). I have approximately 1200 GP left for purchases. A wand of Mage Armor is for sure on the cards.
I'd wait a session and get it with PP. Also buy a few potions of Mage Armor for the few times when no one has it on their spell list or decent UMD.
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Yes. Just seconding that you can get by fine with the wand and without bracers. My monk is at 11th level in PFS, one scenario from 12, and my same wand has lasted all the way through. Also, I don't have UMD at all.
Buying a couple of potions just in case is also something I'll second. I think it only came up once for me, but it was nice to still be able to get the AC boost.
I'm also a fan of carrying a potion of Enlarge Person for when that extra reach and extra damage is needed. A lot of times you can even use a potion of Enlarge Person in place of a potion of Fly. I just did this in a scenario with my Paladin. The enemy was 20 feet up. Expending a 50 gold potion let me attack just fine and was much more cost effective than the potion of Fly would have been. It's great for blocking the enemy's path as well.
At these early levels, there's not too much you need. A ring of protection eventually. If you have seeker of secrets, a cracked vibrant purple prism ioun stone gives you a 1 level spell storing item for 2,000 gold. There's table variation about whether or not you can use a wand to store a spell in it, but you can either pay for spell services or buy a scroll and have the party wizard store the spell for you. What it gets you is the ability to cast Shield if you need even more of a boost to AC. Shield on a two-handed weapon fighter is an amazing buff. Or on an unarmed monk.
Also from Seeker of Secrets, a cracked dusty rose prism for a +1 to initiative for 500gold is a good low cost item.
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I did go ahead an buy a set of bracers AC 1 to go with the wand. Sometimes you are ambushed and don't have time to get the buff off, especially since my monk has 5 cha and an abysmal UMD, so I always have to hand the wand off. It's rare, but sometimes there isn't a party member to activate it for me. Either way, 1000 gold is a cheap way to have backup AC if you can't use the wand.
CHA 5? You must be a Dwarf then.
I would think of a Dwarf as my first choice for Monk. I would probably be a Half-orc.
What is your character AC in melee and out?
Dwarf isn't bad for a monk. The bonus to wisdom becomes a bonus to AC. And you can dump your constitution a little and use those points to increase strength.
My starting stats were Str 16 dex 14 con 14 int 12 wis 16 cha 5. Going from memory at level 8 AC is 31 with Mage armor, or 28 without.
That's perfectly good - 20+level AC means that you'll mostly always have 60% avoidance.