Question on GM fairness and powers


Advice


Alright so heres the situation. I was 400 feet up and I successfully pinned a young green dragon. we fell for one round, and the GM declares a "Legendary Action" out of DnD 5e at about 200 feet. He rolls to break grapple. For those who are not familiar, legendary actions allow a legendary creature to do one of three specific things after a players turn, once per round. For dragons, thats Detect, Tail, and wing attack.

I argued the point, and he said he is the GM and he can home-brew it in since he is the GM. I feel strongly that he didnt want his dragon dying so quickly and in that manner. He claims he intended to do it from the beginning. There is a history of him doing these things, and I've had minor problems with this group of people and GMs in the past.

How should I handle this? Should I continue to play or remove myself from the game? Is this normal practice for GMs?


Talk things over with the GM. If you're not happy with rules from other games getting pulled in without warning, bring it up. It's also possible that the GM is frustrated with something about your character, and changing could help smooth things out. (From personal experience, "I pinned the X" is a good sign of a potentially troublesome build if it's a recurring thing.) Once you've attempted that, then it's up to you whether the gaming is still good gaming.

Grand Lodge

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If you're not comfortable with it, you can either talk to him about it or walk out. From the sound of it, you aren't likely to change his mind about how he GMs, so leaving the group is your only recourse.


Thanks for the replies. Is this normal for GM's though? Or am I being a baby over it?

I don't normally grapple, and a lot of those rounds was me reading over rules to make sure I did it right. Which really added to my level of mad when he decided to do that.

Thanks!


Scorpion Venom1 wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Is this normal for GM's though? Or am I being a baby over it?

I don't normally grapple, and a lot of those rounds was me reading over rules to make sure I did it right. Which really added to my level of mad when he decided to do that.

Thanks!

Nope, not really. But every real-life GM I've played with has had something not normal that's kind of a nuisance. Sometimes they've been worth leaving over, and sometimes they haven't been. (The stuff that has been is typically OOC things, though, ones that made it stressful to play.)


TriOmegaZero wrote:
If you're not comfortable with it, you can either talk to him about it or walk out. From the sound of it, you aren't likely to change his mind about how he GMs, so leaving the group is your only recourse.

I have talked it over, it boiled down to "Im GM, I can do what I want without warning"

I can understand that to a degree, but this is a fairly consistent thing with major battles.

I have also repeatedly said I'm ok with redoing my build omitting factors that might be a problem, because I enjoy balance. I don't however, enjoy having an already over buffed creature made more powerful when I got decent rolls.

Thanks for your input!


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The 'without warning' bit is the problem.

A reasonable GM will tell the players their house rules before you start.
"I'm going to change things without telling you" strikes me as a GM who's trying to 'win'.


GMs and groups have different styles. Some will be your cup of tea, others won't.

It sounds like this group is less bound by the written rules than you prefer, and that reduces you fun in playing.

The only good choices available to you are trying to adapt and enjoy a different flavor (just because you prefer strawberry doesn't mean you can't enjoy vanilla) or politely inform the group that you will no longer be playing in this game.

All that aside, the Dragon breaking the grapple probably saved your characters life, since otherwise before your next turn came around you would both have hit the ground, taking 20d6 damage.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

How much would access to legendary actions raise the dragon's CR? That is the part that he hasn't thought through, most likely.

At least if he gave the dragon mythic tiers you would have a way to calculate just how much stronger he has made the dragon.


Sounds like he was trying to protect his villain and decided to use one of the worst ways to do it. Mythic actions/saves are a decent system to use if you don't want the players to just lock down the boss on the first round however that huge of a house rule should be said up front. Basically it boils down to him not wanting you to lock down his big boss so he changed the rules so you couldn't. It happens but it is not a good thing in most cases.

That said, if your character's regularly do things like pin/paralyze/daze the boss it can get frustrating for the dm when nothing he prepared can take an action. He didn't prep his adventure just to tick down the monster's hp totals. That issue is best solved by talking with the players though

Boiling it down. Play if you usually go home happy. Talk with the dm to see if you can improve things before you quit


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It sounds like he may have forgotten rule one of GMing: Never fall in love with your villains. The PCs will almost always win and shame them. Let the game happen as it unfolds.

That said, the GM is lord of her campaign. If its not working for you, just find another.


I agree that GM's, groups and players can have vastly different styles and since I have been playing since 79 I have seen quite a few.

It sort of sounds like the GM is frustrated and or has forgotten that it is not him vs the players. Now repeated high rolls by a player can be a huge factor in a game or series of games that can cause lots of problems (especially if the GM tries to plan for it and it does not happen and ends up killing the entire party, yes this happened to me wile I was GM'ing).

And just like there are great players there are various levels of "greatness" in GM's and the reveres is also true. So if you have talked to him/her and things do not work out then find another game and or plan online. It is supposed to be a fun experience and if it is not then IMHO something has to change.

MDC


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Scorpion Venom1 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Is this normal for GM's though? Or am I being a baby over it?

First thing: Don't sweat it. You're not being a baby, and the situation you describe has happened a thousand times already with other DMs and other players.

And before you listen to the rest of this crowd and walk out of the game, ask yourself this: do you usually have fun playing with these guys? IF the answer is yes, then just roll with it, accept this DM's little excentricities and wait to see what happens next.

Is this "normal"? Well... a DM has to have his fun, too. And part of that is to craft memorable and challenging situations for the players. Now, this usually works best when the DM can point to some specific rule, feat, ability, spell or whatever to support what the bad guys (in this case, this dragon) can do, but sometimes a DM will pull something extraordinary out of his hat, and you just have to roll with it. AS long as it doesn't result in your character's death (or I should say his death beyond the ability to be raised from the dead), you should just roll your eyes and say "wow! I didn't expect that to happen." Your DM will counter with "nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!" and everybody will have a good laugh.

Do talk about the "surprising" situation. Hopefully, it will help reduce or limit this sort of thing in the future. If it gets so extreme that you're no longer having fun... then it might be time to offer to DM yourself, and show them all how it's done.


Many GM's need to nerf PC's to save their bosses because of action economy. Broken Z's guide to guides has some good GM guides for recommendation (can't link now, could someone linkify?) Basically, if it's just the one dragon you have four or five times as many turns giving you a huge advantage. If that's the case, ask the GM to add more minions to make it more balanced.

Unless I misread what was in front of me, and I apologize.

Also kudos for grappling a dragon. Sounds like a movie stunt.


My belief is that there needs to be a two-way social contract in place in order for the game to be successful. The GM should be impartial or pro-player to encourage good roleplay. The player needs to not try and bend the rules or beat the system. To me roleplaying isn't about winning it's about playing. If it was about winning then the GM would always win.

We only have one side of the story to go on but in regard to the specific example the GM is defintely in the wrong. They have made something up on the spur of the moment to specifically thwart what sounds like good roleplay - defintely not pro-player.

However, the OP also states he has problems with the GM and the group and it may be he is gaming the system essentially 'to win' and this is to the detriment of the rest of the group's enjoyment.

Really the answer is simple. If you're not happy to be in the group and the group is not happy with you being in it then you should leave. You may want to look at your reason for playing first though.


Scorpion Venom1 wrote:
Is this normal for GM's though?

It's not normal. You really should demand that your DM is clear about his house rules before the first session of his game and update you before every session of changes. Not pull it out mid-game, that's really bad form.

Since it seems to be very common for you, he seems to not understand what he's doing; I don't think he understands that it's a pattern and that it's very disruptive for you.


Dave Justus wrote:

GMs and groups have different styles. Some will be your cup of tea, others won't.

It sounds like this group is less bound by the written rules than you prefer, and that reduces you fun in playing.

The only good choices available to you are trying to adapt and enjoy a different flavor (just because you prefer strawberry doesn't mean you can't enjoy vanilla) or politely inform the group that you will no longer be playing in this game.

All that aside, the Dragon breaking the grapple probably saved your characters life, since otherwise before your next turn came around you would both have hit the ground, taking 20d6 damage.

So while all this is true, I will say that if you don't like actually following the rules (or breaking them to hurt the player) pathfinder is a bad system for you.

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