I'm working with the character idea of a Cleric who uses spells and avoids direct combat. I'd gladly swap out the 3/4 BAB if the exchage helped.
Givens: twenty point buy, all published Paizo(even the obscure stuff) except "unchained," a home brew campaign using standard rules, a tough world with the other 2-4 players pretty optimized and expect the same from me, starting at first level and going to about 15th. I'm not familiar with the newer stuff (anything less than two years old!) but am open to using it.
If you want more info please let me know.
What I'd like to do could include buffing, using domain gifts, using the spell list, and *gasp* even the occasional blast or in combat heal.
I'd rather not invest much in channeling, unless it's used against foes.
so I'm looking for advice on a wide range of elements- general strategy, feats, archetypes, and domains.
Thanks board gurus in advance.
I am actual running a very caster focused cleric in my city of Tsar campaign, we are currently 14 level.
So advice I can give you from my personal experience is in combat healing is inneffective unless you focus channel or have access the heal spell.
Are you interested in summoning at all? Clerics, especially the Herald Caller archetype can do this pretty well. It's one of the better ways of staying out of combat yourself.
If you think you will actually be able to stay out of reach but aren't that interested in summoning then the Ecclesitheurge archetype helps to let you cast more domain spells, to mix and match domain powers and domain spells, and gives you a bonded item.
Persistent Spell is very helpful for making debuff spells stick. The cleric list is loaded with Will-save debuffs, but note Burst of Radiance and Chains of Light as Reflex-saves.
Is the oracle an option? What about the shaman? Or are you pretty firm on being a cleric? When you say avoid combat, do you mean just melee combat, or also ranged combat?
Evangelist seems really good if you go cleric.
Since you seem to want to be a caster, you probably want a race with a bonus to Wisdom. Dwarf, Half-elf, Half-orc, and Human work. Aasimar is good choice, too, especially if you plan on using Channel Energy.
Herald Caller looks like it could be great- in itself and for my non-melee guy. Ecclesitheurge has some nice tricks, but giving up armor altogether and shields is high tax.
If we don't have a Bard, and we probably won't, I'll consider Evangelist. Nice offense and buffing options.
[asked great questions...]
I'm trying to explore Cleric, though if I get frustrated- which I don't anticipate- that could change.
And yes, I'm trying to avoid all combat. Ranged is out past low levels.
I'm curious as to what your definition of "direct combat" is. If that means you never make an attack on an enemy yourself (a sort of "pacifist" perspective), then there are other concepts to build from, generally a "pure support" character, such as an Aid Another junkie, or somebody who just specializes in pure Buff and Debuff spells/abilities. If it means that you can't ever be involved in any sort of melee (whether you are attacking or being attacked), then that greatly limits your options, since one way or another, you're going to end up being attacked; limiting this is a good thing, but expecting it to never happen is like saying you'll never roll a 1 on a D20.
You said 3/4 BAB would be acceptable to reduce/remove, but there are no archetypes or prestige classes which do that, so to speak. And to be honest, although Clerics get some very nice and powerful buffs, so do other "support" classes.
The two top ones that I can think of are a Bardadin (2 levels Sacred Shield Paladin, remaining levels Arcane Duelist, Heavy Shield with Arcane Bonded Cestus weapon with a Metamagic Rod in that hand, specializing in Aid Another and Buff/Debuff spells which you can cast thanks to the Arcane Bond benefits you receive), and a Heal-focused Witch (pick up Healing or some other strong buffing Patron, utilize the Healing hexes, Evil Eye, Misfortune, etc., and retains some powerful debuff spells).
With these core identities, you can create characters who contribute significantly and meaningfully to the combats without actually necessarily being the one who executes the actions; you are, more or less, an enabler. The latter concept allows you to just sit back and throw out some Evil Eye/Misfortune hexes, with some Cackle to extend the duration as needed, some Heal hexes to save your spell slots for more valuable spells, as well as your debuff spells (Enervate is crazy-overpowered since it stacks with itself).
The former concept does allow you to wade in melee, but you won't really have to attack an enemy, since you'll be busy throwing out buffs/debuffs, and using Aid Another to improve AC and to-hit; in other words, your action economy will be way too busy making your front-line buddy hitting harder, more often, and you can provide "aggro" support (that is, enemies may find you a more valuable target than the real threat, which is your frontline buddy, and so will go after you instead, to make your frontline buddy less of a threat). The best part is, you can be built extremely tankey with high saves, AC, and secondary defenses like Blur/Mirror Images, with plenty of spell power to buff allies and debuff/control enemies, and maintain full Caster Level as well.
The Evangelist is a strong option, as you become a sort of divine bard.
The Cardinal archetype drops you to a Wizard BAB and light armor, but gives you 6+Int skill points and an expanded skill list, so you could conceivably focus on being a party face.
Herald Caller is strong, because summoning is always a solid option, and the free bonus feats make it even juicier. You could even go with, say, the Feather subdomain to get a bonus to Perception and an animal companion to fight your fights for you, which can be buffed by Boon Companion. That puts extra bodies on the field that aren't you.
[asked great questions...]
I'm trying to explore Cleric, though if I get frustrated- which I don't anticipate- that could change.
And yes, I'm trying to avoid all combat. Ranged is out past low levels.
Cool.
One of my favorite divine spells is murderous command. If the target fails its Will save, it attacks a creature you designate. It's kind of an attack by proxy, and affects 2 different hostile characters, which is pretty cool for a 1st level spell.
I'm assuming not a pacifist cleric? You still want to do direct spell damage against NPCs? Or do you just want to do support stuff?
After the first level or two, I don't plan on direct combat, neither melee nor ranged. As stated above, I might even throw some blaster spells. Metamagic feats might be my friends. Buffing others and screwing the enemy any effective way are options for this non-pacifist Cleric.
Taking a level of multi-class "X" is a possibility, but not likely. Cleric is the focus.
That's the first time I've heard of Cardinal, will look into soon. Thanks.
(And yes, I am taking notes on particularly good spells for this concept.)
That looks like the Ecclisitheurge version found on the PRD unless I'm missing some subtle differences?
For the Ecclesitheurge, I have a simple build for a cleric of Sarenrae. Basically, it's a divine Evoker. Fire domain for attack spells, Heroism domain spells for buffs and the abilities of the Restoration subdomain for the occastional healing. In-combat healing is somewhat useful in the mid-levels if all your cures are empowered and the archetype frees you of the utterly redundant spell list of the healing domain.
In addition to the fire domain blasts, the cleric spell list has some nice evocation spells (Sound Burst, Holy Smite, Flame Strike, Blade Barrier, Firestorm - and that's only core). Some of those include battlefield or crowd control. I'd get Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) and use dazing spiritual weapon as a disabling spell. Probably aiming for Spell Perfection: Fireball or Holy Smite.
Early levels aren't too bad either with fire bolt and blessing of the faithful giving you something to do.
Biggest problem is the complete lack of AC. You don't have armor or a shield and unlike a wizard, you don't have many defensive spells. That makes healing in combat and close quater fights dangerous. But you still have good saves and more HP than a wizard (or witch) so I think it can work out.
|
Let's take a look at an Aasimar Herald Caller of Torag. Our aim will be to stay out of melee so we'll employ spells at range and summon monsters to stand between us and the enemy (in case the other PCs fail in this). We'll also be providing mass buffing. The following is just a quick sketch.
Abilities post-racial, using stock Aasimar +2 Wis +2 Cha:
Str 7
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 20
Cha 16
Traits:
Magical Lineage (Burst of Radiance, or Chains of Light)
Wayang Spell Hunter (Burst of Radiance)
Feats
1 Selective Channel
3 Persistent Spell
4B Augment Summons
5 Sacred Summons
7 Dazing Spell
8B Superior Summons
9 Angelic Blood
11 Angelic Wings
13 Quickened Spell
15 Spell Perfection (Burst of Radiance, or Chains of Light)
As a Herald Caller of a deity with the Earth Domain we're allowed to summon Earth Elementals and communicate with them as if sharing a common language. They hit pretty hard. As a LG cleric we can also summon archons as a standard action with Sacred Summons, significantly increasing the chance our summon spells really go off. Lantern Archons can remain viable at many levels especially when you start summoning whole swarms of them. They can be buffed by bards, too, in which case they become quite absurd.
Burst of Radiance and Chains of Light are absurdly good attack spells. We might drop some of the metamagic though and instead get Spell Penetration and Summon Good Monsters to get more archon choices.
Depending on the deity, the Exalted prestige class might offer some nice benefits.
If you're playing an Aasimar and fancy some melted cheese, be middle aged and grab immortal spark trait for a free extra +1 to WIS/CHA/INT....
One build I've heard of is the Cleric that uses Sanctuary(and later, applies the Hieghten Metamagic feat to it) and throws out Spiritual Weapons and Summon Momster spells so things might not hit him and he didn't have to hit others directly.
I like the Herald Caller for this.
Deity choice becomes very important though, and there is an unfortunate disjunction between the Herald Caller abilities (which tend to favour more moderate alignments like NG) and Sacred Summons (which tends to favour a choice to either extreme of the alignment spectrum, like LG or CG).
Ascalaphus' suggestion of Torag as a deity is quite a good idea, as it brings back in the Earth Elementals via domain (which otherwise wouldn't be summon-able for a LG herald caller). I like that because the elementals can round out levels where there aren't great archon choices to use with Sacred Summons.
I'd probably go Dwarf over Aasimar in that case though, but that's just because I'm a traditionalist like that... ;)
Yes essentially, it means that if you really want to get the most out of Herald Caller then you have to get Summon Good/Evil/Neutral monster feat.
In addition you do get free access to the Expanded Summoning for Priests... not massive but there are a few good extras
|
Here's my spellcasting-focused cleric.
I went with a Conjuration focus, and the Caves subdomain to add 3 pit spells to my domain spell list. There's not much Conjuration at lower levels, but later on you have Hallucinogenic Smoke, Plane Shift, and Chains of Light, which can all be encounter-enders on their own.
Bouncing Spell and Persistent Spell rods are key. Spending 3000 gp on a Lesser Bouncing Spell metamagic rod doubles your chances of getting off spells like Murderous Command and Blindness. Persistent Spell can wreck things with Sound Burst.
|
|
I'd probably go Dwarf over Aasimar in that case though, but that's just because I'm a traditionalist like that... ;)
Dwarves are a fine cleric race as well (Hardy and Stability are both good racial abilities) although you lose out a little on channeling, just when Herald Caller actually makes you good at channeling around corners to help your heralds. Though if you're willing to do without channeling you can also save on Charisma.
|
I'm working with the character idea of a Cleric who uses spells and avoids direct combat. I'd gladly swap out the 3/4 BAB if the exchage helped.
Givens: twenty point buy, all published Paizo(even the obscure stuff) except "unchained," a home brew campaign using standard rules, a tough world with the other 2-4 players pretty optimized and expect the same from me, starting at first level and going to about 15th. I'm not familiar with the newer stuff (anything less than two years old!) but am open to using it.
If you want more info please let me know.
What I'd like to do could include buffing, using domain gifts, using the spell list, and *gasp* even the occasional blast or in combat heal.
I'd rather not invest much in channeling, unless it's used against foes.
so I'm looking for advice on a wide range of elements- general strategy, feats, archetypes, and domains.
Thanks board gurus in advance.
Evangelist- Your "Buffs" is your Inspire Courge, Prayer (also debuffs), Bless. You can easily Specialize in Enchantments. I love command abuse. Suggestion is also really good. For attacking or blasts you can always use spiritual weapon/ally, Burst of Radiance, flame strike, blade barrier or what ever you really feel like. Having most your buffs come from performance really frees up your spell list.
You can also focus on Summoning to great effect.
A lot of the good options still require you to invest heavily in them. If you want to be good at combat healing, then you have to get certain channeling feats and you have other feats that are very complimentary, like reach spell metamagic. I find a Reach Spell enhanced Shield Other to be nearly required for a combat healer, so you can keep your entire party alive without even having to see them.
And summoning is the same way. You will want feats and magic items to enhance your summoning. I do recommend a Herald Caller for what you're seeming to want.
Depending on party composition, looks like Herald Caller or Evangelist are solid choices for what I'm looking for. I should have room for feats that help summoning and some metamagics as well.
Thanks for the input everyone. More ideas are welcome as not only has the start of the game been delayed a bit, but leveling should be slow to start.