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I'm not sure I really agree with the switch for gaining a new element a level earlier, it seems a little clunky. The idea of changing burn around though does seem interesting.
That's something I'm a bit iffy on myself too just because I'm not in love with how everything is shaking out. It was supposed to validate the change in expanded element, but I might end up changing that back. At this point this was a first draft, but it's something that I think I want to work with further to make into a more viable and fun unchained version of the class for everyone, making burn unique without making it so crippling.
I assume we can talk about Shinobi here now?
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I assume we can talk about Shinobi here now?
I might make a new thread for it later, but for the moment, yeah, go nuts.
Also Legendary Kineticists is number 1 on the top 10 downloads list, so hell yeah for that! Didn't know if we'd take down one on one adventures going one v one with them, but another solid day for team KOP!
Uh.... what was your line of thinking behind "1d4+cha" damage with no scaling...?
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Ah, man, wasn't planning on spending any more this week, but the Kinetic Shinobi was awesome, so need to get the finished product. Wish I could have helped with this one, but life's been super-busy lately, both with work and working on getting a new place to live in. Hopefully things should be getting settled in a few weeks. But anyways!
So, what's your favorite element to build a kinetic shinobi with? I wound up making a kinetic shinobi NPC that went with poison, myself.
GDI, and I just sent you this. I guess I should have had Jason N. send it to everybody, but QSS. And it's fine, honestly sometimes we all have obligations, but know I do enjoy working with you.
As for me, I actually really like going Mind element Shadow Stepper, it as a really fun 'genjutsu' theme to me that I really appreciate. Being able to jump into shadows and control minds feels like a really cool anti hero thing to do.
Uh.... what was your line of thinking behind "1d4+cha" damage with no scaling...?
The idea was it to basically work as a dagger since you can full attack with it, but since some people are displeased with it, I think I will include a scaling to it. While we have people here, what do you all think would be a good scaling for this? I could see going an extra d4 at 6th/12th/18th. From the damage calcs in the discussion thread, it's not really too far behind other classes, especially with ki. It might be worth doing monk unarmed damage scaling for this too.
EDIT: Can I get a clarification from people here who have an issue with this? Is this issue being brought up with the assumption that it's only a standard action like a normal kinetic blast, or is this under the assumption that this is a full attack action, which it is? I feel like there's some crossed wires here between expectations, and I want to make sure we're discussing the same thing.
Basically, you have really good talents, sneak attack, and so on for your damage.
That said though, I can see the worry. You can always get enchanted weapons and throw them in place of jutsu. Also, please keep in mind, touch attack sneak attacks are really nice.
Honestly I cannot disagree more with adding damage scaling to the jutsu infusions. I think the worry is that it's basically like the 1d6 + 1/2 level abilities for some sorcerer bloodlines, and people are assuming right off the bat that there's nothing that can be done to them before even taking half a glance at the shinobi talents. Scaling the damage up is just going to make it far too powerful in the long run I think.
Please, do NOT change the damage.
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Honestly I cannot disagree more with adding damage scaling to the jutsu infusions. I think the worry is that it's basically like the 1d6 + 1/2 level abilities for some sorcerer bloodlines, and people are assuming right off the bat that there's nothing that can be done to them before even taking half a glance at the shinobi talents. Scaling the damage up is just going to make it far too powerful in the long run I think.
Please, do NOT change the damage.
Hm...I do trust Onyx with my life, so I'd like to hear some more discussion on the whole damage thing. It really is feeling like the base damage of this was taken without taking into account all the ways to buff it. Like I said, it works in the same vein as the elemental annihilator with a 3/4ths BAB. I should do the damage calcs on Valerie to show them as well.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I've entrusted the project to Jolly and Team KOP so I'm fine with whichever way you decide to go on revising the damage progression (or not) on the Shinobi. That's the Legendary way - your name is on it, so make it awesome, but what you write is what you write and it flies or dies based on your creative vision.
Alrighty, I did three sets of damage calcs to show how the damage unfolds for this class: two to increase the damage of focused jutsu to its maximum and one to get as many iterative attacks as one can. In all cases I also assume this to be a physical blast, adding in Power Attack/Deadly Aim and sneak attack as appropriate. I'm accounting for sneak attack here as well. I will note that thw iteratives build takes he improved celerity wild talent from LK, meaning aerokineticists will get the most out of it. It's formatted as follows:
Normal Damage / Oni Force Damage | Kinetic Katana Damage / Oni Force + Kinetic Katana Damage
Focused Jutsu + Power Attack/Deadly Aim + Oni Force
1: 1d4+Cha | 1d8+1.5Cha = 2.5+Cha | 4.5+1.5Cha
2: 1d6+1d4+Cha | 1d8+1d6+1.5Cha = 6+Cha | 8+1.5Cha
3-4: 1d6+2d4+2+Cha | 2d8+1d6+2+1.5Cha = 9.5+Cha | 13.5+1.5Cha
5: 2d6+2d4+2+Cha | 2d8+2d6+2+1.5Cha = 14+Cha | 18+1.5Cha
6-7: 2d6+3d4+4+Cha | 3d8+2d6+4+1.5Cha = 18.5+Cha | 24.5+1.5Cha
8: 3d6+3d4+4+Cha | 3d8+3d6+4+1.5Cha = 22+Cha | 28+1.5Cha
9-10: 3d6+4d4+4+Cha | 4d8+3d6+4+1.5Cha = 24.5+Cha | 32.5+1.5Cha
11: 4d6+4d4+6+Cha / 5d6+3d4+6+Cha | 4d8+4d6+6+1.5Cha / 1d10+3d8+4d6+6+1.5Cha = 30+Cha / 31+Cha | 38+1.5Cha / 39+1.5Cha
12-13: 4d6+5d4+6+Cha / 5d6+4d4+6+Cha | 5d8+4d6+6+1.5Cha / 1d10+4d8+4d6+6+1.5Cha = 31.5+Cha / 32.5+Cha | 41.5+1.5Cha / 42.5+1.5Cha
14: 5d6+5d4+6+Cha / 6d6+4d4+6+Cha | 5d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha / 1d10+4d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha = 35+Cha / 36+Cha | 45+1.4Cha / 46+1.5Cha
15: 5d6+6d4+6+Cha / 6d6+5d4+6+Cha | 6d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha / 1d10+5d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha = 37.5+Cha / 38.5+Cha | 49.5+1.5Cha / 50.5+1.5Cha
16: 5d6+6d4+8+Cha / 1d8+5d6+5d4+8+Cha | 6d8+5d6+8+1.5Cha / 5d8+7d6+8+1.5Cha = 40.5+Cha / 42.5+Cha | 52.5+1.5Cha / 55+1.5Cha
17: 6d6+6d4+8+Cha / 1d8+6d6+5d4+8+Cha | 6d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha / 5d8+8d6+8+1.5Cha = 44+Cha / 46+Cha | 56+1.5Cha / 58.5+1.5Cha
18-19: 6d6+7d4+8+Cha / 1d8+6d6+6d4+8+Cha | 7d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha / 6d8+8d6+8+1.5Cha = 46.5+Cha / 48.5+Cha | 60.5+1.5Cha / 63+1.5Cha
20: 7d6+7d4+8+Cha / 1d8+7d6+6d4+8+Cha | 7d8+7d6+8+1.5Cha / 6d8+9d6+8+1.5Cha = 50+Cha / 52+Cha | 64+1.5Cha / 66.5+1.5Cha
Focused Jutsu + Power Attack/Deadly Aim + Oni Blade + Composite Blast
1-12: See calcs above; I'm starting this at 13th to allow one to take both Oni Force and Advanced Jutsu without needing feats
13: 4d6+6d4+6+Cha / 1d10+4d6+4d4+6+Cha | 6d8+4d6+6+1.5Cha / 4d8+7d6+6+1.5Cha = 35+Cha / 35.5+Cha | 47+1.5Cha / 48.5+1.5Cha
14: 5d6+6d4+6+Cha / 1d10+5d6+4d4+6+Cha | 6d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha / 4d8+8d6+6+1.5Cha = 38.5+Cha / 39+Cha | 49.5+1.5Cha / 52+1.5Cha
15: 5d6+7d4+6+Cha / 1d10+5d6+5d4+6+Cha | 7d8+5d6+6+1.5Cha / 5d8+8d6+6+1.5Cha = 41+Cha / 41.5+Cha | 55+1.5Cha / 56.5+1.5Cha
16: 5d6+7d4+8+Cha / 7d6+5d4+8+Cha | 7d8+5d6+8+1.5Cha / 8d8+5d6+8+1.5Cha = 43+Cha / 45+Cha | 57+Cha / 61.5+1.5Cha
17: 6d6+7d4+8+Cha / 8d6+5d4+8+Cha | 7d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha / 8d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha = 46.5+Cha / 48.5+Cha | 60+1.5Cha / 64.5+1.5Cha
18-19: 6d6+8d4+8+Cha / 8d6+6d4+8+Cha | 8d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha / 9d8+6d6+8+1.5Cha = 49+Cha / 51+Cha | 65+1.5Cha / 69.5+1.5Cha
20: 7d6+8d4+8+Cha / 9d6+6d4+8+Cha | 8d8+7d6+8+1.5Cha / 9d8+7d6+8+1.5Cha = 52.5+Cha / 54.5+Cha | 68.5+1.5Cha / 73+1.5Cha
Deadly Aim + Starstorm Art + Oni Blade + Celerity + Improved Celerity (Assumes Deadly Aim at 3rd, Celerity at 7th, Improved Celerity at 9th, Oni Force at 11th, Starstorm Art at 13th; damage advancement may be different depending on the order these talents/feats are taken)
1-2: See calcs above; Since both Focused Jutsu is taken at 3rd in the previous builds, that's where the damage deviates here.
3-4: (1d4+2+Cha)+1d6 | (1d8+2+1.5Cha)+1d6 = 8+Cha | 10+1.5Cha
5: (1d4+2+Cha)+2d6 | (1d8+2+1.5Cha)+2d6 = 11.5+Cha | 13.5+1.5Cha
6: (1d4+4+Cha)+2d6 | (1d8+4+1.5Cha)+2d6 = 13.5+Cha | 15.5+1.5Cha
7: (1d4+4+Cha)*2+2d6 | (1d8+4+1.5Cha)*2+2d6 = 20+2Cha | 24+3Cha
8: (1d4+4+Cha)*3+3d6 | (1d8+4+1.5Cha)*3+3d6 = 30+3Cha | 36+4.5Cha
9-10: (1d4+6+Cha)*3+3d6 | (1d8+6+1.5Cha)*3+3d6 = 36+3Cha | 42+4.5Cha
11: (1d4+6+Cha)*4+4d6 / (1d6+6+Cha)*4+4d6 | (1d8+6+1.5Cha)*4+4d6 / (1d10+6+1.5Cha)*4+4d6 = 48+4Cha / 52+4Cha | 56+6Cha / 60+6Cha
12: (1d4+8+Cha)*4+4d6 / (1d6+8+Cha)*4+4d6 | (1d8+8+1.5Cha)*4+4d6 / (1d10+8+1.5Cha)*4+4d6 = 56+4Cha / 60+4Cha | 64+6Cha / 68+6Cha
13: (1d4+8+Cha)*6+4d6 / (1d6+8+Cha)*6+4d6 | (1d8+8+1.5Cha)*6+4d6 / (1d10+8+1.5Cha)*6+4d6 = 77+6Cha / 83+6Cha | 89+9Cha / 95+9Cha
14-15: (1d4+8+Cha)*6+5d6 / (1d6+8+Cha)*6+5d6 | (1d8+8+1.5Cha)*6+5d6 / (1d10+8+1.5Cha)*6+5d6 = 80.5+6Cha / 86.5+6Cha | 92.5+9Cha / 98.5+9Cha
16: (1d4+10+Cha)*7+5d6 / (1d8+10+Cha)*7+5d6 | (1d8+10+1.5Cha)*7+5d6 / (2d6+10+1.5Cha)*7+5d6 = 91+7Cha / 105+7Cha | 105+10.5Cha / 136.5+10.5Cha
17-19: (1d4+10+Cha)*7+6d6 / (1d8+10+Cha)*7+6d6 | (1d8+10+1.5Cha)*7+6d6 / (2d6+10+1.5Cha)*7+6d6 = 94.5+7Cha / 108.5+7Cha | 108.5+10.5Cha / 140+10.5Cha
20: (1d4+12+Cha)*7+7d6 / (1d8+12+Cha)*7+7d6 | (1d8+12+1.5Cha)*7+7d6 / (2d6+12+1.5Cha)*7+7d6 = 98+7Cha / 112+7Cha | 112+10.5Cha / 143.5+10.5Cha
Yeah, I don't think we need to increase damage to make this effective. I know it's not one of my usual high-iterative builds that get four digits of damage, but it's still pretty capable of dropping most mobs in one or two rounds. You also need to consider I'm not accounting for a possible kineticist's diadem (though you might get more out of a simple Cha headband), nor for any other enhancements that might affect the damage of the blast. Keep in mind that you do need to pay ki for Starstorm Art and Oni Force, though you could mitigate the cost of Oni Force with Favored Shinobi Talent (or possibly Flurry of Stars if you're allowed to use FST for it, though you can't as worded). Honestly, though, Oni Force is a waste of ki outside of the high-iteratives build (as you'll note it's only a couple of points of extra damage). It's also possible to take Twin Stars and True Hadou Fusion to tack on another attack, and maybe even 2WF feats for up to two more (though doing that would leave you severely starved for room on the build and hurting a bit for accuracy on the extra attacks provided by TWF). You could pick up Electric Blast if you're okay losing most of that Cha damage as well as the Deadly Aim damage, but if you throw in KoP stuff you could take Energy Aim and pick up Time instead of Air, making this even deadlier as you're using untyped damage then (though you'd need your GM to judge whether Imp. Celerity can be taken by a chronokineticist).
Another important note is that the iteratives is the most wildly variable damage, as several archetypes alter sneak attack and if a player is using the invisible blade talent, instead of getting a single sneak attack they should apply sneak attack to each iterative attack, as greater invisibility doesn't fade away when one takes hostile actions. This can cause your damage to skyrocket incredibly quickly.
FINALLY bought my copy ^_^
Loving it... although there's one archetype that bugs me a bit...
- Armor Proficiencies (Medium, Heavy)
- Weapon Proficiencies (Martial)
- Different Kinetic Blade/Whip infusions; basically, channelling the Blast through a weapon, replacing a melee touch attack by a regular melee attack, BUT that uses the weapon's qualities and critical modifiers. Yes, essentially, doubling, tripling or quadruplying a Kinetic Blast on a critical hit.
- Same goes with armor, channelling infusions through armors
- Fighter equivalency; Kineticist level = fighter level for feats, not actual bonus feats.
- Full BAB; ok, major change here, but hey, still in line with the archetype.
That's just my opinion though.
All in all, pretty good booklet :)
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FINALLY bought my copy ^_^
Loving it... although there's one archetype that bugs me a bit...
** spoiler omitted **
All in all, pretty good booklet :)
I'll admit the name of that archetype is a little misleading, if we did something like that, it'd probably be kinetic blade related, but I think I still have some room in LK 2 to fit in something like that.
If you get the chance, please leave a review for it, and starting next month we'll be doing the playtest for Legendary Kineticists II, which will include the unchained kineticist!
FINALLY bought my copy ^_^
Loving it... although there's one archetype that bugs me a bit...
** spoiler omitted **
All in all, pretty good booklet :)
I'll admit the name of that archetype is a little misleading, if we did something like that, it'd probably be kinetic blade related, but I think I still have some room in LK 2 to fit in something like that.
If you get the chance, please leave a review for it, and starting next month we'll be doing the playtest for Legendary Kineticists II, which will include the unchained kineticist!
I'll see what I can do for a review ;)
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I'll see what I can do for a review ;)
It's greatly appreciated. Work is still going hard on LK 2, we're going to section out this playtest since the KOP 4 playtest stalled a bit due to putting out everything we had at once, so I'd like to give people a chance to digest this all better, although the unchained kineticist will be a part of the initial playtest.
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I'll see what I can do for a review ;)It's greatly appreciated. Work is still going hard on LK 2, we're going to section out this playtest since the KOP 4 playtest stalled a bit due to putting out everything we had at once, so I'd like to give people a chance to digest this all better, although the unchained kineticist will be a part of the initial playtest.
It's there ^_^
BTW, what I'd like to see for a Kineticist archetype would be something similar to the Gun Tank, for the Gunslinger. The Gunslinger is usually a nimble ranged specialist, but then that archetype trades mobility for heavy armor.
The Kineticist could use an archetype that has medium and heavy armor proficiency, martial weapons, the ability to channel blasts through weapons and armors.
Y'know, a soldier-like Kineticist that mixes blasts and weapons.
What does the Stone Vandal talent (in LK) interact with?
Just the Shift Earth talent (in OA)?
All honesty? Yes, pretty much, at least if you take every ability specifically as it's worded. It's ultimately more an ability that has potential to be good. Assuming you're only using Paizo and LK, there's honestly not too many stellar options for earth: beyond this we have skilled kineticist, kinetic wall, earth walk, cantikinesis, and enhanced fist. Not the broadest option pool, and several are highly dependent on a specific type of build to really work well.
On the bright side, if you ever run across an ability in other 3pp that only functions on unworked stone, that's going to up Stone Vandal's value quite a bit. But for now, I'd just look at it as a soft prerequisite for Shift Earth, if you don't really want Earth Walk and don't expect need to beat enemies up with stone fists or musical instruments that spout blasts of pebbles.
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All honesty? Yes, pretty much, at least if you take every ability specifically as it's worded.
Unless you unnaturally start imposing restrictions that Stone Vandal then removes, I'm not quite sure what you mean!
In all honesty, I'm a little disappointed that Earth (one of the "core four") seems such a narrow track. Like, if it's going to be linear anyways, might as well dispense with the Talent-system in favor of the Domain-system - or emphasize the latter more than the former in any case.
But anyhow, thanks for clearing that up.
Am I missing out on some other third party material that opens up this path?
In the KoP series, it'd also affect the pitfall series of wild talents, as well as distorted area, seismic stomp, and (fir you're earth/fire) lava pool. It's still a fairly narrow pool of talents, but it at least means more options if you want to play someone who can alter their surroundings as they see fit and live in an urban area.
I'll have to go through the talents more, though; there's quite a few which simulate spells, and some of those may work with stone vandal as well.
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I'll have to go through the talents more, though; there's quite a few which simulate spells, and some of those may work with stone vandal as well.
Pretty sure that's it. Let me know if you find something else.
I noticed the 2nd level Druid spell Soften Earth and Stone and, while mechanically similar to Entangling Infusion, targets an area as opposed to a person. And as the spell effects "all natural, undressed earth or stone" in it's area it is an example of a spell that could be converted to a talent that could work with Stone Vandal.
What is KoP? Those abilities sound cool.
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Kineticists of Porphyra, a series of books created by the same people who made this one, but for a different publisher. Don't really want to get too off-track, though, since that's a different product description, so I'll just post it in spoilers.
** spoiler omitted **
Omigod there is 3 of them. All highly reviewed, no less. Ok gang, which one has the best low-level Earth Talents?
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Omigod there is 3 of them. All highly reviewed, no less. Ok gang, which one has the best low-level Earth Talents?Kineticists of Porphyra, a series of books created by the same people who made this one, but for a different publisher. Don't really want to get too off-track, though, since that's a different product description, so I'll just post it in spoilers.
** spoiler omitted **
I think the guide has a list of which talents come in which book, there should be a sorting table for that, at least as far as KOP 3.
And KOP 2 has the best magical item support, but I'd suggest going to the KOP thread to discuss this further.
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Hey, a big thanks to EZG for his review of Legendary Kineticists, and check out his patreon to help him do more reviews!
Seriously Onyx, you need to see his opinions on Cantikinesis, the thing I made you write two archetypes around because the base concept was too damn big.
Thank you so much for the shout-out, master Jolly. You and Onyx did a superb job with this one!!
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Thank you so much for the shout-out, master Jolly. You and Onyx did a superb job with this one!!
Thanks dude, just finished reading the review. I'm glad you had so much love for Cantikinesis and the archetypes that centered on it. I have to admit those are my favorite archetypes in the book, too!
With Legendary Kineticists II now out, I thought this would be a good time to bump this thread so if anybody has questions about it they can feel free to ask here~
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And since it is out, I'm gonna repost my Dev post over here. Onyx, feel free to join suit:
Another book, and another dev post, this time for Legendary Kineticists II, the first sequel book in the legendary heroes line:
Bestial Kineticist
This was something that'd been brought up by a few people, and personally, it lets you get a fire breathing penguin as an AC, which is the only thing we need in life. It's a nice inclusion onto most ACs, but still needs you to build towards it to make it too good.
Metakinetic Savant
People do seem to like to alter their blasts, and that's the idea here, giving you the chance to really switch up your blast with a lot of new metamagic style options. It's yet another new way to alter the already versatile kinetic blast that I think people are gonna like.
Nihilicist
So we have the void element, but what about NO element? The nihilicist does just that, it's emptiness at its most pure, and it deals special damage that curses targets rather than just damaging them. There's a lot of versatility here, allowing you to not only hurt others but debuff them in interesting ways, eventually fading from existence yourself.
Onslaught Blaster
The selling point of the book, this is the DBZ blaster spam archetype, and the one that's most likely to get you rolling a hundred dice a round. Rather than a single blast, you launch a wave of different attacks, which opens up tons of new options for combat, and more importantly, just looks awesome.
Order of the Scion
Cavaliers are pretty plain, but throwing elemental energy onto them is a great way to make your horse ownership all the more interesting, as well as giving you an elemental spear to joust like a real hero.
Planar Custodian
If you really want a more elemental druid, this is the way to go, mixing talents and normal druid abilities into a more concise package. Sure you only get elemental form with wild shape, but you also nab a kinetic blast to give you yet another tool with your elemental abilities.
Planestouched Oracle
Another simple mix, this is another way to nab a kinetic blast with a few other unique options to help you play more like a proper hybrid of the two classes.
Telekinetic Bladeshifter
The martial archetype, there's just a ton of cool stuff you can do with this archetype, building weapons out of force or just using telekinetic power in a very melee intensive way. Really, if you're looking for a way to play yet another unique martial kineticist, this is it.
New Wild Talents
The new basic X talents are around so that if you'd rather focus on electricity or ice while choosing your elements, you can do just that, making for a more customizable experience with the same ability to swap them as other basic talents in the line. Throw in other stuff like Kinetic Lich to actually play an elementally sustained lich, and you've got a nice new addition of talents.
New Spells
A shock, this book actually includes spells to help you simulate being a kineticist, including the ability to force burn onto others or to delay your own burn, perfect for the casting archetypes to keep themselves safe.
Kinetic Mystic
This was originally slated for LK 1, but we had to hold it back. The real joy here is an old school 'hybrid prestige class', mixing kineticist with casters to try and make both more interesting. This'll eventually give you the ability to mix blasts with spells, which should make for some very interesting combinations.
Legendary Kineticist
Ah, the big point of this book, my kineticist rebuild. People have been asking for this for a long time, and now you have what I would do to change the kineticist. While less in need of a rebuild than other classes, the legendary kineticist has a few slight power boosts as well as mechanics to make it more dynamic in combat with the inclusion of battle burn. Add to that the new burn mechanics that keep you from killing yourself with your primary class feature and a slight alteration of class feature placement, and to me, this feels like a far more smooth class, especially with the lack of the ability to pick up new wild talents.
Kineticist Variant Multiclass
VMC always seems feast or famine, and I wanted to make an experience that worked for players to dip into kinetic power. While your blast is weaker than a full kineticist, you still have plenty of options to buff it, as well as being able to access utility wild talents through the Legendary Extra Wild Talent feat in the previous section, making you far more adept at playing a kineticist even if you didn't want to take the class.
Sample Character: Trueno, Herald of the White Sky
I talked about it to some friends, but I find it funny that all my LG kineticist seem to be differently abled in some way, be it with Mindfang's missing eyes or Trueno's missing arm. Trueno was a fun character to write, and her stat block includes her burn stats too so that you don't have to do the math yourself.
Storyline wise, I just love old mercenaries, and she helps introduce more character types for me, including the eventual inclusion of Black Chains into the Ehn/LG storyline. She should be easy to toss into most games, and she serves as a great example of what can be done with both the legendary kineticist and the onslaught blaster.
Final Thoughts
This is the last full kineticist book I have planned, and while I'll probably still be doing some light misc kineticist content, I feel like I've gone as far as I can with this class. I also can't ignore Onyx, who's contributions to this were even larger than before. Onyx has been a joy with which to work, as well as an insightful designer who's helped push me further. I could say that about any of the others on this project, as Blue Maculagh, Jacob McCoy, Timothy Mclaughlin, and Blake Morton all deserve thanks for making this book nearly as good as it was. Thank you to everyone who's been following my work, it means a lot to me, and I'll be doing my best to continue making content that you all enjoy.
I'll go ahead and repost my dev post as well:
Ehn covered pretty much everything that needed to be said, but I'll at least try and give my perspective on this.
Bestial Kineticist - You really don't see archetypes for animal companions too often, and I wanted to have something that would be compatible with a lot of different classes and archetypes that weren't kineticists. One of the more unfortunate things about this is how much errata it's gonna need with the release of Arcane Anthology, but hey, the book was submitted before AA was out, so it is what it is. *shrug* I'll note the errata below.
Metakinetic Savant - This is one of those archetypes that's going to really need to rely on GM fiat more and more in the future, especially if other 3pp content is used which adds other metamagic feats. Again, AA's release means a little errata here. It's probably my least favorite of the archetypes, but it's very easy to plug it into most other archetypes. Even if you don't replace any of the base metakinesis abilities, it's a sidegrade for internal buffer and a VERY solid upgrade to metakinetic master.
Nihilicist - One of my babies in this book. As Ehn said it did take some tweaking to get it to work well, but I love where it ended up. It was in part inspired by the Monk of the Healing Hand archetype, acting as a character willing to sacrifice not only their life, but their very existence and the memory thereof for the greater good.
Onslaught Blaster - This is one of the parts of the book I didn't have nearly as much of a hand in, aside from helping with balancing things out math-wise. It does fill a role that people really wanted however, expanding one of the infusions (Flurry of Blasts) into an entire playstyle.
Order of the Scion - Not exactly an archetype, but it just adds an order which allows for a kineticist lean on the base cavalier. This is another thing hit by the introduction of AA, but not quite as much so, since the wording still supports its additions without much errata.
Planar Custodian - Something of a "hybrid" archetype, splicing the kineticist's abilities into a druid. There is a little bit of errata to be added, but it should play nicely with AA as is.
Planestouched Oracle - Is it odd that I'm surprised when one of our archetypes fits on one page of a book? :P Anyway, despite its simplicity, this is a smoother hybrid archetype IMO than the planar custodian ended up being.
Telekinetic Bladeshifter - Another of my babies~ Originally I wanted this to be sort of a kineticist/fighter hybrid, and frankly I think it could have been a hybrid class with a little more polish, but as it is it feels more like a class hack, which I'm completely fine with.
Legendary Kineticist - I'll fully admit - and I may be in the minority here - that I'm a fan of the baseline kineticist versus the legendary kineticist, but I think Ehn did handle this remake of the class quite well, and it's something a lot of people wanted to happen.
Kinetic Mystic - And the last one I feel I can truly consider my offspring. As mentioned, it's essentially in the spirit of the old "class hybrid" prestige classes, in this case combining aspects of the kineticist and the magus. What you come out with is a way to really enhance both your kinetic blasts and your attacks.
Beyond the above, I don't have a whole lot to add. Overall, I'm very proud of how the book came together, and I had a blast working on it~
Now, I'll go ahead and include my errata; ya'll can take these as suggestions, though I do hope Ehn approves of these, and they might be applied to any reprints of the book:
- For the bestial kineticist's Wild Tricks, the whole exception for Wood Blast can be removed. It was meant as a workaround for wood not having a wood/wood composite blast, which it now does as per AA.
- For the bestial kineticist's Elemental Form, if the bestial kineticist has Positive Blast, I'd say to count it as the aether subtype. Unfortunately I couldn't find any other subtype that fits it without being linked to an alignment. Also, while I'm sure you all know what it means, feel free to ignore where it states "elemental subtype" except where it specifically states it adds THE elemental subtype. Everything else is meant to be "subtype provided by its element".
- Metakinetic Savants should count Positive Blast as Evocation [light] and Verdant Blast as Conjuration (creation) [light]. I could also see a case for Conjuration (healing) and Conjuration (creation, healing) respectively but I personally prefer the former.
- Planar Custodians should be able to pick the Badlands domain. It's something that should be pretty clear since it's mentioned elsewhere, but it was something we went back and forth on including and ultimately did include it (but in the process accidentally omitted from the list of viable domains).
- Already mentioned, but Basic Cryokinesis should add 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level in natural armor, not 1 + your kineticist level.
- Add Basic Phytokinesis or Wood Blast as prerequisites to Brutal Club. Wouldn't make much sense to be able to shape a wooden weapon if all you have is positive energy, right?
- Life After Undeath can be chosen now as a wood wild talent, and can be chosen in place of Basic Phytokinesis. Yay!
- Similarly, Lingering Energy is a wood wild talent now as well, though its prerequisites stand (although it's not that useful unless you're fighting a horde of unintelligent shambling zombies).
- Lastly - and this is more a point of pseudo-OCD - Trueno's art is backwards in the title page, and this wouldn't bother me if not for the fact she's asymmetrical. I understand it was done for layout reasons but bruh! I'm triggered!
*clears throat* Alrighty, that's pretty much it. It does rather disappoint me that this is the last of Ehn's planned kineticist books, but between the LK and KoP series, I think we've turned what was originally a fun-but-flawed class into something that rivals - no, even exceeds - the versatility of many 9th level casters, and I think that's a hell of a feat all on its own. It's been an absolute honor to have worked with him, and I do really hope he'll be willing to include me in at least some of his future projects.
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How do composite blasts interact with the onslaught blast? Would a 7th level kineticist get 8 1d6+1/1d6 blasts (my assumption) before taking into account the burned and excessive blaster class features or would the kineticist get 4 2d6+2/2d6 blasts in keeping with how onslaught blast works normally?
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Just got Legendary Kineticists I & II and I'm pleases whith the options. Now I can make a ice fox kineticist!
Kitune with Superior Shapeshifter[blood of beasts]: fox shape feat at 1st.
Planar Gates Tattoo[Legendary Kineticists I]: no hands needed for blasts.
Onslaught Blaster (Kineticist Archetype)[Legendary Kineticists II]: full action attack instead of gather energy; no hands needed.
Legendary Kineticist (Variant Class)[Legendary Kineticists I]: burn not hp based so Con can be lower plus tiny creatures use Dex instead of Str for swim/climb so minus dex/str skills easier to take.
Element water/cold [Shroud of Water, Basic Cryokinesis{Legendary Kineticist II}]
Talent: Elemental Whispers{Horror Adventures}[hedgehog(Emissary archrtype)- +2 will saves, guidance at will, second save vs mind-affecting effects, 1 use of a 1st-level domain power.]
feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot
At 3rd level that tiny fox has AC: 25(Shroud of Water [+5AC], Basic Cryokinesis[+2nat AC], dex 18+4 size +6 ac, tiny +2 ac), Fort: +6, Ref: +9, Will: +4, +11 to hit touch AC blasts [3d6 +1 cold]. Full round action to extend range [120']. All that's needed is a 1,300 GP tattoo and 1 burn for Shroud of Water!
How do composite blasts interact with the onslaught blast? Would a 7th level kineticist get 8 1d6+1/1d6 blasts (my assumption) before taking into account the burned and excessive blaster class features or would the kineticist get 4 2d6+2/2d6 blasts in keeping with how onslaught blast works normally?
It'd be 8 1d6 blasts. For composites, you're just performing twice as many blasts since they have an additional die per blast. And before anyone asks, if you're going with KoP content and include Complex Negative Admixture, that blast in particular would provide you triple the blasts as a simple blast would.
As for other ways a kinetic blast might gain additional damage dice (such as from a kineticist's diadem), I'll let Ehn field that.
Just got Legendary Kineticists I & II and I'm pleases whith the options. Now I can make a ice fox kineticist!
Kitune with Superior Shapeshifter[blood of beasts]: fox shape feat at 1st.
Planar Gates Tattoo[Legendary Kineticists I]: no hands needed for blasts.
Onslaught Blaster (Kineticist Archetype)[Legendary Kineticists II]: full action attack instead of gather energy; no hands needed.
Legendary Kineticist (Variant Class)[Legendary Kineticists I]: burn not hp based so Con can be lower plus tiny creatures use Dex instead of Str for swim/climb so minus dex/str skills easier to take.
Element water/cold [Shroud of Water, Basic Cryokinesis{Legendary Kineticist II}]
Talent: Elemental Whispers{Horror Adventures}[hedgehog(Emissary archrtype)- +2 will saves, guidance at will, second save vs mind-affecting effects, 1 use of a 1st-level domain power.]feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot
At 3rd level that tiny fox has AC: 25(Shroud of Water [+5AC], Basic Cryokinesis[+2nat AC], dex 18+4 size +6 ac, tiny +2 ac), Fort: +6, Ref: +9, Will: +4, +11 to hit touch AC blasts [3d6 +1 cold]. Full round action to extend range [120']. All that's needed is a 1,300 GP tattoo and 1 burn for Shroud of Water!
Something I should point out is that Basic Cryo needs errata to be more in line with Basic Electro. It's supposed to provide 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level to nat armor and to attack rolls on cold-based blasts. As such you're getting +1 natural armor, not +2. You won't be at +2 until 5th. Still, that's pretty decent AC at 3rd~
Something I should point out is that Basic Cryo needs errata to be more in line with Basic Electro. It's supposed to provide 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level to nat armor and to attack rolls on cold-based blasts. As such you're getting +1 natural armor, not +2. You won't be at +2 until 5th. Still, that's pretty decent AC at 3rd~
Ok, cool. It seemed pretty strong so it's not too much of a shock that it needed errata. I'm still quite pleased with the talent so thumbs up on some awesome products. ;)
PS: I also pleased that the character still has over half her wealth she can spend on fun stuff, since she's competitive without any buff items. I'm thinking of buying a Hand rotary quern so I can turn the ice from Basic cryo into crushed ice. Now I just have to figure out the price for syrups...
PPS: With basic cryo's create water, do you pick the form it comes in? For instance a cube, sheet or sphere? Does it form a single mass or can it be like pile of sleet pellets? Is snow possible? How 'solid' is the ice?: for instance, create water can be summoned at close range so is 16lbs/level of ice falling from 25' going to injure someone or is it just going to break apart?
Sorry for all the questions, but there are a lot that pop up with creating a solid vs a liquid. I'm thinking of taking craft: [ice]sculptures and/or stone[ice]masonry and maybe profession: cook [for snow cones and ice cream!] so what form the ice can come in is fairly important to figuring out that can be done with it.
Something I should point out is that Basic Cryo needs errata to be more in line with Basic Electro. It's supposed to provide 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level to nat armor and to attack rolls on cold-based blasts. As such you're getting +1 natural armor, not +2. You won't be at +2 until 5th. Still, that's pretty decent AC at 3rd~Ok, cool. It seemed pretty strong so it's not too much of a shock that it needed errata. I'm still quite pleased with the talent so thumbs up on some awesome products. ;)
PS: I also pleased that the character still has over half her wealth she can spend on fun stuff, since she's competitive without any buff items. I'm thinking of buying a Hand rotary quern so I can turn the ice from Basic cryo into crushed ice. Now I just have to figure out the price for syrups...
PPS: With basic cryo's create water, do you pick the form it comes in? For instance a cube, sheet or sphere? Does it form a single mass or can it be like pile of sleet pellets? Is snow possible? How 'solid' is the ice?: for instance, create water can be summoned at close range so is 16lbs/level of ice falling from 25' going to injure someone or is it just going to break apart?
Sorry for all the questions, but there are a lot that pop up with creating a solid vs a liquid. I'm thinking of taking craft: [ice]sculptures and/or
stone[ice]masonry and maybe profession: cook [for snow cones and ice cream!] so what form the ice can come in is fairly important to figuring out that can be done with it.
I'd say it takes the form of a single crude chunk. Probably roughly spherical, but very rough, like you're manifesting an ice boulder of about 7.6 kg per level (as you said about 16 lbs). I could see weaponizing it by dropping it over someone's head for sure, although you're very likely to deal more damage and have an easier time hitting with your cold blast.
And don't forget, ice sculptor is a talent. You could get hella creative by combining it with basic cryokinesis. Might need to get a friend to convert the ice into snow for your snowcone business, though, unless your GM judges that you can use ice sculptor to break it into snow.
Anyway, hope you enjoy your Alolan Ninetails ice kitsune!
Thanks for the quick reply!
Crude chunk: I kind of expected as much. Too bad it couldn't be made square/rectangular as that'd allow wall's and igloo's to be made as-is.
Weaponizing: I figured 1 or 2 points of physical damage might be a plan B for cold resistant/immune foes. It'd also be helpful in triggering things set off by weight like trap triggers.
Ice sculptor: Nice but 4th level so it's a ways off. Plus it doesn't allow for fine detail, so Craft would still be needed to finish things off. Walls and such would be a breeze though.
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PS: I also pleased that the character still has over half her wealth she can spend on fun stuff, since she's competitive without any buff items. I'm thinking of buying a Hand rotary quern so I can turn the ice from Basic cryo into crushed ice. Now I just have to figure out the price for syrups...
Apprentice's Cheating Gloves gives you at-will prestidigitation letting you flavor anyway you want. Best part? 0 calories! It's 100% healthy and 100% delicious! On top of that, 0 pollution as well.
By using prestidigitation, one could set up a sno-cone business, making little paper cones using the spell, creating the crushed ice with your kinesis, and then flavoring it with the spell as well. After 1 hour passes, the paper cone just vanishes, leaving no waste. You could make bowls of crushed ice as well, forming the bowl and spoon with prestidigitation, and again, no waste. You also aren't limited to standard flavors either; you could have lemon cones, strawberry cones, apple pie cones, buttermilk cones, orange cones, watermelon cones... Any flavor you can imagine, you can create with prestidigitation.
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I may have done this once or twice with characters...
Tels: I like it and the at will mage hand also works well for someone without hands. ;)
I guess I could take Chosen one as one of my traits and start off with the gloves and the tattoo at first. It'll just push back when I can buy a ring of eloquence so I can speak. Though, I could communicate slowly with the gloves. [prestidigitation to make a small crappy sign and mage hand to hold it up and/or point]
Thanks a lot! This really fits the character well. LOL looks like the first three magic items I get aren't going to be from the 'big six'.
Onyx Tanuki: I just thought of something. Create water "can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid". Could you make ice in a square if you created the ice in a square container? You know, like a snow brick mold? If so my dream of low level ice architecture might come true!
Tels: I like it and the at will mage hand also works well for someone without hands. ;)
I guess I could take Chosen one as one of my traits and start off with the gloves and the tattoo at first. It'll just push back when I can buy a ring of eloquence so I can speak. Though, I could communicate slowly with the gloves. [prestidigitation to make a small crappy sign and mage hand to hold it up and/or point]
Thanks a lot! This really fits the character well. LOL looks like the first three magic items I get aren't going to be from the 'big six'.
Onyx Tanuki: I just thought of something. Create water "can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid". Could you make ice in a square if you created the ice in a square container? You know, like a snow brick mold? If so my dream of low level ice architecture might come true!
As long as you have the appropriate molds to set it in and know the approximate volume of ice it'd take to fill it, then yes, you absolutely could use basic cryo to fill molds with ice. You of course still must possess the means to extract the ice, and if you put too much in then you'd have the shave the rough bits off yourself (or at least smooth it down with ice sculptor or a similar ability) but it's a perfectly viable alternative to just dropping a chunk of ice and breaking out a pick.
Tels: I like it and the at will mage hand also works well for someone without hands. ;)
I guess I could take Chosen one as one of my traits and start off with the gloves and the tattoo at first. It'll just push back when I can buy a ring of eloquence so I can speak. Though, I could communicate slowly with the gloves. [prestidigitation to make a small crappy sign and mage hand to hold it up and/or point]
Thanks a lot! This really fits the character well. LOL looks like the first three magic items I get aren't going to be from the 'big six'.
Onyx Tanuki: I just thought of something. Create water "can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid". Could you make ice in a square if you created the ice in a square container? You know, like a snow brick mold? If so my dream of low level ice architecture might come true!
Use prestidigitation to make small signs ala Wile-e-Coyote.
I would love to read that note about Psychokineticist/Neurokineticist compatibility and snatchable powers that you half promised... I gave Synaptic Infusion to my Psychokineticist Barbarian, is that right? ^_^