Inheritance and raise dead, resurrection, and executions.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

I have a quick question for those of you who have experience with the practice of law (para legals, Barristers, Solicitors and Attorneys) out there

Presumably property, wealth, businesses, titles (as in landed gentry), positions, magic items, grimoires, etc....gets inherited from parents to children all the time when a death occurs.

What happens to the process of inheritance when a raise dead or resurrection (not animate dead) spell is cast by a cleric and the deceased parent is brought back to life?

Would there be specific language in a will to handle such a possibility?

How about when a criminal is sentenced to death? If someone is executed by the state.....and are later raised from the dead?

Lets say a team of pathfinders, while doing an errand for a Venture Captain like Drendle Dreng, are confronted by the city guard of Absalom and a fight ensues.. a couple of constables are killed. The team of pathfinders is arrested tried and hanged.
But they have "insurance" policies with their churches (Sarenrae, Caden Caylien, Shelyn, Callistra) to have a raise dead spell cast on their corpses should they die.

Have the pathfinder agents suffered the punishment for their crimes and are free to go?

I realize that these are situational questions and the answer will vary on where you are on Golarion. However what do you think? I'm curious.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would guess that lawful executions would then stipulate it illegal for the executed to be raised from the dead, for one. Conducting the execution such that basic raise dead was unviable would be relatively easy, and the more powerful variants would be significantly rarer.


I guess the answer varies heavily depending on the setting and the nation in case. I can imagine there being sections in law regarding this issue.

About the inheritance, for example, there could be a law that states that part of the inherited fortune would be used to finance a raise dead, and if that weren't possible at the moment then the inheritance carried on normally. If the deceased were then brought back to life later on then there'd be another set of laws, such as that the inheritor would be responsible to finance the deceased person's new life to a start or something.

I'd imagine it being illegal to bring an executed criminal back to life.

This is a very interesting question, by the way.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

For inheritance purposes, a likely law would be that a person is not declared legally dead until the maximum time period for Raise Dead has elapsed.

For executions, bringing a dead person back to life would probably carry the same penalty as interfering so as to prevent the execution in the first place. The sole exception would be if the executed person's conviction were legally overturned -- then, presumably, the bare minimum change should be that there would be no penalty for bringing such an executed person back to life.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

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Well, raise dead has a time limit of days, while the resurrection spells work in decades.

Any line of succession would have to have some kind of time limit. Imagine if someone raised a king or queen from over a century ago.. would the current ruler be expected to step aside?

I have seen, and agree with, the idea that once a person in a hereditary position dies, their place in the line of succession is over. Even if they come back, they don't get to jump back in.

Of course, it could totally depend on the political landscape of a given nation. A fascist dictator might very well adopt a policy that they are always the ruler and in case of death - it is mandated that they be raised.

As for criminals, you could make a case that a person sentenced to death and is then executed has paid their debt to society. If they have some manner of coming back after then they are considered to have a clean slate in regards to that crime.

Again, given nations or kingdoms could all have very different ideas.

EDIT: Whoops! Somehow I got onto the idea that this was about lines of succession and the passing of crowns.

The idea is still sound though, even when talking about inheritances of money, land, or belongings.

Silver Crusade

Thank you for your posts


Considering how many adventurers are orphan loners from razed villages, I suspect the issue rarely arises.


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James F.D. Graham wrote:
I have seen, and agree with, the idea that once a person in a hereditary position dies, their place in the line of succession is over. Even if they come back, they don't get to jump back in.

Cormyr in Forgotten Realms uses this system. If the king or queen is killed, then if they are resurrected they automatically forfeit all claim to the throne forever.


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Actually the revival spells would allow for "natural" inheritance: they normally have no power of people that died due to old age thus allowing one to live his or her natural lifespan and preventing violence and accidents from disrupting the hereditary line.

In case of royalty and high nobility attempt to revive the dead might become the norm. Once the revival attempt fails the deceased is legally declared "truly dead" and then the succession follows. Until then the deceased is merely "mortally indisposed". Of course there might be issues with parties having interested in revival failure, parties worried about the stress the revival puts on the estate budget.


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Also, revival spells would allow for "temporary executions": The monarch could order the execution of the rebellious kin or a major noble with stipulation that the traitor will be revived (either at the condemned's or the state cost, depending upon the severity of the crime and circumstances of the execution). Obviously this would be punishment reserved for the wealthy and the powerful.


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The legends of the five rings campaign dealt with the situation where a historic emperor came back from the dead and found his descendent decidedly lacking! In short it was a nightmare - and therefore great narrative material!

The answer depends on whether 5th to 7th level clerical magic is a truly wonderous gift from the gods or available in scroll form on every street corner. In the former there may well not be laws regarding resurrection in the latter there may need to be some.

As to the legal questions I support position espoused by Cormyr. Once a will is executed its can't be undone. The legality of the will can be challenged but once agreed it is done.


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I have a quick question for those of you who have experience with the practice of law (para legals, Barristers, Solicitors and Attorneys) out there

Presumably property, wealth, businesses, titles (as in landed gentry), positions, magic items, grimoires, etc....gets inherited from parents to children all the time when a death occurs.

What happens to the process of inheritance when a raise dead or resurrection (not animate dead) spell is cast by a cleric and the deceased parent is brought back to life?

<Laughs> If you've ever asked a hypothetical real-world law question of a real-world lawyer, you already know what I'm going to say:

"It depends."

In this case, it depends upon how the laws of the particular jurisdiction are written and enforced. As the absolute Sultan of Swing, I can make whatever laws I like and everyone who disagreed will simply have their brains eaten. In a less illithid-esque monarchy, there may be slightly more procedure, but the end result is that the law is what the Grand Council want it to be.

Quote:


Would there be specific language in a will to handle such a possibility?

Depends on the will, doesn't it?

----

In general, what most lawmakers want most is the ability to make the right decision on the spot, and what most subjects want is the ability to predict the decisions that are made. (That's one reason, for example, that so many corporations in the US are based in Delaware -- there's a well-established set of case law that covers almost all contingencies and provides precedent for nearly everything so you can do corporate planning. If you're a corporation out of Alaska, it's much harder to predict what will happen in a novel case.)

I would suspect that many jurisdictions operate on an "if it takes magic to bring you back, you are dead" rule precisely because that is both easy to understand and to implement and because it prevents exactly this kind of dispute. On the other hand, I could also see a particularly cunning Grand Vizier type using something more Byzantine because it creates loopholes that can be exploited.

Similarly, I could see many jurisdictions just having a blanket "unlicenced use of revivification magic is forbidden" rule to keep this kind of dispute from arising.

But, basically, there are three types of systems in the real world.

There's the absolutist system of one-man-one-vote: the Autocrat is The Man and he has The Vote. The status is what he says it is, and the penalty is also what he says it is. Revivify at your peril, and have your bribe money handy.

There's the formal system of written law, where what it says in Section III, Book 13, Section 4, Verse 13, line 2 goes. Make sure that you're using the correct edition and you should be fine.

Finally, there's the common law system, where what happened before shall happen again. Check to see what was decided the last time this case came up, and if this happens to be a "hey, there's a first time for everything" situation, treat it as the first type.


Alleran wrote:
James F.D. Graham wrote:
I have seen, and agree with, the idea that once a person in a hereditary position dies, their place in the line of succession is over. Even if they come back, they don't get to jump back in.
Cormyr in Forgotten Realms uses this system. If the king or queen is killed, then if they are resurrected they automatically forfeit all claim to the throne forever.

they are also exiled and magically sterilized


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I have a quick question for those of you who have experience with the practice of law (para legals, Barristers, Solicitors and Attorneys) out there

Presumably property, wealth, businesses, titles (as in landed gentry), positions, magic items, grimoires, etc....gets inherited from parents to children all the time when a death occurs.

What happens to the process of inheritance when a raise dead or resurrection (not animate dead) spell is cast by a cleric and the deceased parent is brought back to life?

I should point out that real-world law actually makes provision for something very similar. Most jurisdictions allow someone to be "declared dead in absentia" if, for example, they disappear but no body is found. (For a real world example of this, see the 7th Earl of Lucan, who disappeared in 1974. Legally speaking, he is "presumed to have died on or after" the date he vanished, and in 2016 his son, now the 8th Earl, was able to get such a declaration and inherited the Earldom.)

However, if Lord Lucan shows up next week (and can prove his identity to the satisfaction of the court), that judgment will be reversed. This will create a lot of legal hassle for all parties as they need to un-probate the will and strip the 8th Earl of his title, et cetera. But it's certainly possible that he might have been kidnapped and he's spent the past 40+ years in a jail cell somewhere.

Since England/Wales is largely a common law system, you can look to case law to see how this would turn out. Of course, personally I think he's dead and the issue won't arise, but I've been wrong before....

Liberty's Edge

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Drejk wrote:

Actually the revival spells would allow for "natural" inheritance: they normally have no power of people that died due to old age thus allowing one to live his or her natural lifespan and preventing violence and accidents from disrupting the hereditary line.

In case of royalty and high nobility attempt to revive the dead might become the norm. Once the revival attempt fails the deceased is legally declared "truly dead" and then the succession follows. Until then the deceased is merely "mortally indisposed". Of course there might be issues with parties having interested in revival failure, parties worried about the stress the revival puts on the estate budget.

This strategy is used almost precisely regarding a question of succession in CotCT. A Raise Dead is attempted, and only when it fails does the line of succession take over.

Drejk wrote:
Also, revival spells would allow for "temporary executions": The monarch could order the execution of the rebellious kin or a major noble with stipulation that the traitor will be revived (either at the condemned's or the state cost, depending upon the severity of the crime and circumstances of the execution). Obviously this would be punishment reserved for the wealthy and the powerful.

This is a pretty severe punishment given that, for non-PCs, Raise Dead fails a pretty significant percentage of the time (ie: whenever the GM says it does). Still possible, but more equivalent to a trial by ordeal than anything one is sure to recover from.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Drejk wrote:

Actually the revival spells would allow for "natural" inheritance: they normally have no power of people that died due to old age thus allowing one to live his or her natural lifespan and preventing violence and accidents from disrupting the hereditary line.

In case of royalty and high nobility attempt to revive the dead might become the norm. Once the revival attempt fails the deceased is legally declared "truly dead" and then the succession follows. Until then the deceased is merely "mortally indisposed". Of course there might be issues with parties having interested in revival failure, parties worried about the stress the revival puts on the estate budget.

This strategy is used almost precisely regarding a question of succession in CotCT. A Raise Dead is attempted, and only when it fails does the line of succession take over.

Interesting. I'd see that as a standard in worlds where revival is well established and popular (with extreme version being Steven Brust's Dragaera where normal death-that did not involved serious damage to brain or soul-destroying weapons-is mostly an inconvenience and resurrections happen on daily basis to the point where killing someone is considered a form of stern warning and the cost of being revived is equivalent of fine among their criminal organizations).

Quote:
Drejk wrote:
Also, revival spells would allow for "temporary executions": The monarch could order the execution of the rebellious kin or a major noble with stipulation that the traitor will be revived (either at the condemned's or the state cost, depending upon the severity of the crime and circumstances of the execution). Obviously this would be punishment reserved for the wealthy and the powerful.
This is a pretty severe punishment given that, for non-PCs, Raise Dead fails a pretty significant percentage of the time (ie: whenever the GM says it does). Still possible, but more equivalent to a trial by ordeal than anything one is sure to recover from.

It would be definitely more severe punishment than exile but lesser than execution and soul trapping for a specific period of time.


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Also, if making analogy to our world there is similarity to 20-21st century law: person is not considered legally dead until a professional declares one dead (coroner, medical doctor, possibly medical technician, or a proper magistrate after receiving a properly filled form by a medical doctor), even if the person suffers from clinical death he or she is not legally dead until the proper authority deems the patient beyond rescue. Revival magic just extends that from hours to days or years.


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I have a quick question for those of you who have experience with the practice of law (para legals, Barristers, Solicitors and Attorneys) out there

Presumably property, wealth, businesses, titles (as in landed gentry), positions, magic items, grimoires, etc....gets inherited from parents to children all the time when a death occurs.

What happens to the process of inheritance when a raise dead or resurrection (not animate dead) spell is cast by a cleric and the deceased parent is brought back to life?

This was actually addressed in the Girl Genius Webcomic where resurrection by Mad Science is common enough for the topic to come up.

Typically in such cases, resurrectees frequently find themselves with no status, as the transfer of inheritance... (this includes noble offices and such) is irrevocable upon death. Many of these states have outlawed the resurrection of nobles to prevent fights and wars over such matters. One of the major figures by the name of Klaus orders the resurrection of one of the wards who died in his care in direct defiance of such custom.

In Golarion, the Red Mantis Assassins have the ability to sense when someone they have killed has been resurrected... and will then seek off to kill both the resurrected target.... and the person responsible for resurrecting them.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Golarion (Pathfinder's setting) does not touch this subject much since it would be one of many issues that all magic could affect society.

The view of resurrection may well change viewpoint from culture to culture. If a person passed away from old age, resurrection is likely not an issue since it only addresses death through violence, accident, or similar means.

I can only throw in my suggestion that for most Inner Sea cultures death could be treated as a severe illness for those that can afford and have access to resurrection magic (such as nobility, or other nation rulers). Until the departed is resurrected, a representative would handle affairs until the departed can be resurrected. If resurrection is performed in good faith (meaning a reasonable attempt), and fails, then the departed is declared deceased.

Other muddy water issues would be returning as intelligent undead, suffer lycanthropy, or reincarnation. Mind control, if proven, would be treated as loss of capacity or coercion (and any crimes performed while under another's influence may be assigned to the controller).


KestrelZ wrote:

Golarion (Pathfinder's setting) does not touch this subject much since it would be one of many issues that all magic could affect society.

The view of resurrection may well change viewpoint from culture to culture. If a person passed away from old age, resurrection is likely not an issue since it only addresses death through violence, accident, or similar means.

I can only throw in my suggestion that for most Inner Sea cultures death could be treated as a severe illness for those that can afford and have access to resurrection magic (such as nobility, or other nation rulers). Until the departed is resurrected, a representative would handle affairs until the departed can be resurrected. If resurrection is performed in good faith (meaning a reasonable attempt), and fails, then the departed is declared deceased.

Other muddy water issues would be returning as intelligent undead, suffer lycanthropy, or reincarnation. Mind control, if proven, would be treated as loss of capacity or coercion (and any crimes performed while under another's influence may be assigned to the controller).

Much of these are assumptions based on an American viewpoint. It's also quite logical that among other things, Mind control would not be used as a defense of one's actions,and controller and controlee would be punished alike... especially if political advantage were involved in doing so.

Keep in mind that many assumptions we take for granted...such as presumption of innocence, equal treatment under the law, are relatively new in the scheme of things.


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James F.D. Graham wrote:

As for criminals, you could make a case that a person sentenced to death and is then executed has paid their debt to society. If they have some manner of coming back after then they are considered to have a clean slate in regards to that crime.

This has extremly strange consequences.

I am rich, so i can hunt grannies with my Crossbow. I mean, even if they catch me and hang me for bloody murder, it only costs me about 8.000 Gold and 2 weeks vacation to get rid of the resulting inconveniences.

"Off off, Harold. Go fetch me the 9er Club! I'm gonna hunt me some preschoolers before lunch. Tolly-Ho!"

Or a bit more sane:
"Dont make me angry you peasant. I can cut you down where you stand, and your whole family with you. Do as i say. I am willing to spend the 8.000 Gold to make a point. Try me!"


If inheritance sets only in after a certain amount of time, instead of irrevocabily and instantaneous, it makes assassination for effect much harder.

So if the timelimit for Raise Dead has to tick down 1st without a successful raise, and then inheritance happens, it gives the now temporarily-deadified but still technically ruling noble time to undo the hard the assassination caused. Thus pulling off a succesffull assassination will become much harder, as the classic (and relatively easy) poisone dgoblet or crossbowbolt from the belltower wont really work any more.
This makes it ahrder to assassinate ruling nobles, which are inciddentally also those people with a) the power to write the laws and b) the money to pay for being raised.

Thus i conclude that there will be an amount of time for reviving, and at least a stipulation that at least 1 possibly working try to resurrect has to have taken place before an inheritance process can be started. While still allowing for reliable rules, this also makes it so that the realm doesnt fall into a succession crisis just because the King was temporarily unavailable for 5 hours.

Shadow Lodge

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Depends on whether the nobles are more interested in discouraging assassination, making sure they have the ability to assassinate rivals, or discouraging really nasty forms of assassination that involve mutilation of bodies or soul-trapping in order to prevent resurrection.

In a setting where assassination and Raise Dead are both common, I would actually expect dying and being raised to be treated like mandatory retirement - you lose any political offices and are required to step away from public affairs but retain rights to enough personal property to live comfortably. This minimizes motivation to take extreme measures to make sure an assassinated target stays dead and thus might actually be the safest option for the nobility.

Do agree that if Raise Dead is available and reliable it turns the sentence of execution into a very large fine. Which might be exactly what the decadent and evil elite want, of course...


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Remember raise dead is also dependent on a fairly intact corpse, so post-mortem mutilations and/or cremation would probably be a part of any legal proceeding/assassination attempt where raise dead would be a factor.

Liberty's Edge

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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Remember raise dead is also dependent on a fairly intact corpse, so post-mortem mutilations and/or cremation would probably be a part of any legal proceeding/assassination attempt where raise dead would be a factor.

I'm pretty sure a simple beheading prevents Raise Dead. It says it doesn't restore severed body parts, and a missing head or body is pretty important to y'know, living.

Won't stop Resurrection, but that's rarer, more expensive, and almost impossible to prevent anyway. If you need to stop it, you cremate the body and then seal the ashes in stone in an undisclosed locale or scatter them in the sea. This'd likely be done for traitors and the like, with simple criminals just beheaded or otherwise dealt with.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Remember raise dead is also dependent on a fairly intact corpse, so post-mortem mutilations and/or cremation would probably be a part of any legal proceeding/assassination attempt where raise dead would be a factor.

I'm pretty sure a simple beheading prevents Raise Dead. It says it doesn't restore severed body parts, and a missing head or body is pretty important to y'know, living.

Won't stop Resurrection, but that's rarer, more expensive, and almost impossible to prevent anyway. If you need to stop it, you cremate the body and then seal the ashes in stone in an undisclosed locale or scatter them in the sea. This'd likely be done for traitors and the like, with simple criminals just beheaded or otherwise dealt with.

That depends on whether or not shoving a beheaded person's head onto their body would make them count as "whole". I would personally say that so long as the person's bits are all together in the right way then raising fixes all physical damage, even if that means reconnecting severed parts.

Not that it really matters that much, honestly. If an attacker can behead someone, they can cut out out a chunk of that person's upper spinal cord and pocket it so raising the victim is useless.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Snowblind wrote:
That depends on whether or not shoving a beheaded person's head onto their body would make them count as "whole". I would personally say that so long as the person's bits are all together in the right way then raising fixes all physical damage, even if that means reconnecting severed parts.

This is why the Galtan revolution soul binds those they behead. You can never be too sure.


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Matters of law and succession in this style would make kidnappings, polymorphs, charms, plane shifts, and so on far more common.


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Sissyl wrote:
Matters of law and succession in this style would make kidnappings, polymorphs, charms, plane shifts, and so on far more common.

... for people that could afford them. This again gets back to the question of how common and affordable high-level magic is in the world. Your average third-level baronial heir might have a hard time finding someone who could plane shift the current baron away. Your average sixteenth-level heir would be likely just to do it herself.


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Snowblind wrote:
If an attacker can behead someone, they can cut out out a chunk of that person's upper spinal cord and pocket it so raising the victim is useless.

Reincarnate would still work. Although that adds, "some kobold is claiming to be the dead king" to the legal complexities.


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
If an attacker can behead someone, they can cut out out a chunk of that person's upper spinal cord and pocket it so raising the victim is useless.
Reincarnate would still work. Although that adds, "some kobold is claiming to be the dead king" to the legal complexities.

Well, when reality itself is magical, the law (and politics) will naturally reflect and take into account the possibility of magic.

Drahliana Moonrunner is correct that many of the answers posed on this thread assume a fairly modern framework with respect for human rights and whatnot. The idea that incapacity to do otherwise is a defense against a crime is certainly modern and even so remains controversial. But the law would certainly be aware of the possibility of mind control magic and would have something in place to deal with it, even if it's just a rule that the wizard and his puppet are both to be punished. Any halfway competent minister would have a contingency plan in place both to resurrect the thirty-second duke and also to deal with any upstarts who claim to be the resurrected, reincarnated, or recently released from imprisonment second duke.


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This is an odd question because every single D&D or Pathfinder game I've been part of has always had inheritance be based on the "I loot the body" principal.


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Does everyone in Golarion carry all their wealth on their person all the time? Or is that just adventurers?


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I would expect that if the state sentenced you to death, they intend for you to stay dead. Much like if they sentenced you to life in prison you don't get out scott free if you escape. They just hunt you down and throw you back in. Same for being executed, your sentenced was death, not hanging/beheading/etc. If you're not dead, you are violating the order, and they'll do whatever it (reasonably) takes to make sure you go back to being dead.


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Adventures deposit their fortunes in the Bank of Abadar, at least in Golarion.


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One thing to remember is that Resurrection cannot reverse death by old age. Someone who dies of old age can be considered truly dead as soon as the coroner says and inheritance doesn't need to wait for the Resurrection timer to run out.

Reincarnation is a problem, but it's more reasonable to say that the reincarnated are considered dead unless they've named themselves as their own heir since it's a rarer spell with permanent complications most people probably don't want to deal with.


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Even in the modern world, inheritance is held up for months to allow creditors to come forward and make their claims on the estate. It wouldn't be a stretch to see the authorities doing something similar with respect to raising the dead. They'd just hold off on allowing the heirs to take over the property (or rights, or whatever) until a reasonable period has passed.

The Exchange

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You might be judged before being resurected and unable to come back. So it is a risk most people who can would avoid.


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It should probably be standard to cast an Augury before you try to raise someone. Woe, wasted component. Weal, your spell is successful. If you don't get an answer, have a couple of low level clerics cast it until someone gets a response.

GeneticDrift wrote:
You might be judged before being resurected and unable to come back. So it is a risk most people who can would avoid.

Mummy's Maks 6 has an article about everything you ever wanted to know about dying. There's a line that Pharasma in her destiny/prophecy role knows who is going to receive a resurrection attempt, so she delays judging them. You can certainly fluff that to who "deserves" or is "destined" to return to life, but the Augury strategy still saves you from wasted components.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are two factors that limit the ability to raise executed people: cost and Pharasma's judgment.

The cost of a Raise Dead is beyond the ability of most people to pay -- so getting the government to pay the cost of raising somebody that they unjustly executed would be equivalent to winning a multimillion dollar civil court case against them.

Even so, the Golarion setting also factors in Pharasma's judgment: Nobody who has been judged by Pharasma can be raised from the dead. The setting material is deliberately vague about how long after death this judgment occurs, but there is no "safe window" in which you can be sure that said judgment hasn't happened yet.


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David knott 242 wrote:

There are two factors that limit the ability to raise executed people: cost and Pharasma's judgment.

The cost of a Raise Dead is beyond the ability of most people to pay -- so getting the government to pay the cost of raising somebody that they unjustly executed would be equivalent to winning a multimillion dollar civil court case against them.

Even so, the Golarion setting also factors in Pharasma's judgment: Nobody who has been judged by Pharasma can be raised from the dead. The setting material is deliberately vague about how long after death this judgment occurs, but there is no "safe window" in which you can be sure that said judgment hasn't happened yet.

You forgot one other... no one can be raised against their will. And they have knowledge of the alignment (and maybe diety) of the caster of the spell.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

True -- I was assuming that the dead person wanted to be brought back and thus only mentioned the factors that would prevent raising of a willing person.


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Here's the relevant text from the River of Souls article in Pyramid of the Sky Pharaoh:

Quote:
(In her capacity as the goddess of fate, Pharasma knows which souls are and aren’t done with life, including those destined to be called back to the Material Plane via magic. These souls are not judged or transformed into petitioners. Rather, they’re left to wait in the Boneyard until resurrected and allowed to progress toward their true death.)

Dark Archive

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So lets take a look at the relevant spells.

Point of order, people who have died of old age cannot be raised. the only loophole to this is "killing" the old person days/hours/minutes before he dies of natural causes and casting reincarnate on him to put him in a new young body.

Rest Eternal
1 round cast time - Level 4 spell
Vial of holy or unholy water - Curse the body to bar it from returning to life

simple and cheap spell that can be cast on a body after an execution to help bar it from being resurrected. a higher level caster could easily get past this with remove curse or a high enough caster check but again its a simple cheap insurance policy

Reincarnate
10 minute cast time - level 4 spell
1,000 gp - only a part of the body is needed and condition is not a factor, can be no older then 1 week deceased.

Needs a druid to cast so fairly rare for most common folk. the body is a new young adult humanoid that could be of an entirely different race as he previously was so executors will have a hard time proving it is the man they sentenced to death and inheritors would not be willing to listen unless specified in the will

Breath of life
1 standard action - level 5 spell
No cost - need whole body and can not be more then 1 round old.

really only useful if casts 6 seconds after death..

Raise Dead
1 minute Cast time - level 5 spell
5,000 gp, a whole intact body to be raised. no older then 1/day a level deceased so max of 20 days

This is the most accessible and "cheapest" means available to the general population, but 5,000 gp is still a decent amount of gold for your commoner. Executions could stipulate that the bodies are held for 20 days in a secure location before being destroyed or buried. Burning/destroying the body might also be common practice in execution cases to prevent raise dead and resurrection and also to prevent evil spirits and such.

Resurrection
10 minute Cast time - level 7 spell
10,000 gp, condition of the body is not a factor only a part of it needs to be present. can be 10 years per caster level deceased so a max of 200 years.

Next most accessible but it still requires a high level cleric (13th) and a decent amount of gold. most people could not afford this outside of adventurers and nobles. Holding the body becomes not feasible the only method is destroying the body to prevent the resurrection. i would not count ashes as a "part of the body" to be resurrected.

True Resurrection
10 minute cast time - level 9 spell
25,000 gp does not need the body only a name or description of the deceased. still only 10 years per caster level.

If you have a 17th level cleric in your corner and 25,000 gp to expend on a spell i say you made some good decisions in life and at this point no one can stop your coming back to life even if they wish to execute you again. if the people who sentenced you to death find you alive and try to prosecute you again well then you need to try to avoid them better.

Now i primarily focused on the executions point but inheritance is a little more complicated, if by the time you come back all your belongings have been spread out among your family or followed by your will there is not much you can do but if you come back before all of that then you might be able to make a case to put it on hold and gain your estate and possessions back. If someone is bringing you back with your money or theirs they certainly have a good reason to look after your well being since they went through all the trouble instead of just taking off with the money. so they might be willing or liable to looking after you until you get in a stable position again.

Going back to "world building" if i was running a town or city in a world of magic and monsters. my laws / stipulations on the matter would be:

All dead are burned and the ashes entombed in the graveyard. this is to mainly prevent the bodies from being raised as undead and to keep spirits of the dead from appearing and haunting the place.

The executed bodies are also burned but the bodies and ashes are held in a secure location for at least 20 days.

in regards to inheritance any person that dies unless it is in their will or they have a "DNR" (do not resurrect) then a portion of their estate is used on a resurrection attempt before anything else.


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Shadowlords wrote:


Resurrection
10 minute Cast time - level 7 spell
10,000 gp, condition of the body is not a factor only a part of it needs to be present. can be 10 years per caster level deceased so a max of 200 years.

Next most accessible but it still requires a high level cleric (13th) and a decent amount of gold. most people could not afford this outside of adventurers and nobles. Holding the body becomes not feasible the only method is destroying the body to prevent the resurrection. i would not count ashes as a "part of the body" to be resurrected.

Your ashes disqualification is inconsistent with Disintegrate, which lets you resurrect with just a pinch of dust after being magically torn apart. The clear intent is that True Resurrection is if you absolutely cannot get any part of the body and have to recreate them from thin air, regular Resurrection is just a bump up from Raise Dead if the body took some damage. No amount of damage/change, as long as you have a body part of some sort, pushed you into a need for True Resurrection (or Wish or Miracle).

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