There was a page on paizo that talked about everything that dies and does nit change when you wild shape, polymorph, etc. I'm agonized by the fact that I can't re-find it. Anyways...
Do you gain the use of spell like abilities that your animal has?
If you animal has a natural armor bonus, do you gain its natural ormor bonus, the one that beast shape gives, the combination, or neither?
Thanks.
The individual spells that your ability duplicates (Beast Shape, Elemental Body, and Plant Shape) all detail exactly what you do and don't get from the ability use. For example, at 4th level your Wild Shape can turn you into a small or medium animal per Beast Shape I. That gives you the following explicit abilities:
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.
Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.
Note: Polymorph spells/abilities don't turn you explicitly into the creature you're polymorphing into. They change your form and give you abilities which are explicitly laid out by the spell/ability.
There was a page on paizo that talked about everything that dies and does nit change when you wild shape, polymorph, etc. I'm agonized by the fact that I can't re-find it. Anyways...
Do you gain the use of spell like abilities that your animal has?
If you animal has a natural armor bonus, do you gain its natural ormor bonus, the one that beast shape gives, the combination, or neither?
Thanks.
Do you mean this?
You get the natural armor bonus specified by the spell, ignoring the actual animal's value.
You won't get any SLAs unless the spell you're using says so, and I don't think any of them do. What is there that wild shape can turn into that has an SLA? You can't turn into magical beasts, they're not of type animal.
Some plants have SLAs.
But you do not get them from Plant Shape.
Also see the general polymorph rules also. They state what you lose and get when changing shape in general, like vision, size bonuses to AC and so on.
Actually the polymorph rules from earlier in this thread don't state you lose anything.So that leads to weird things like the Dragon polymorphed into a human that still has a bite attack and is even stronger while doing so while still having his tough skin. IS that what's intended or am I seriously misreading the rules?
Actually the polymorph rules from earlier in this thread don't state you lose anything.So that leads to weird things like the Dragon polymorphed into a human that still has a bite attack and is even stronger while doing so while still having his tough skin. IS that what's intended or am I seriously misreading the rules?
The rules get wonky the further you move away from the basic assumptions that the spellcaster is a medium humanoid.
There was a page on paizo that talked about everything that dies and does nit change when you wild shape, polymorph, etc. I'm agonized by the fact that I can't re-find it. Anyways...
Do you gain the use of spell like abilities that your animal has?
If you animal has a natural armor bonus, do you gain its natural ormor bonus, the one that beast shape gives, the combination, or neither?
Thanks.
Do you mean this?
You get the natural armor bonus specified by the spell, ignoring the actual animal's value.
You won't get any SLAs unless the spell you're using says so, and I don't think any of them do. What is there that wild shape can turn into that has an SLA? You can't turn into magical beasts, they're not of type animal.
Beast shape 3 or an 8th level wild shape allows you to take the form of a medium or small magical beast. I was thinking of a darkmantle in particular. They can use darkness 1/day as a SLA.
Actually, that's covered in the polymorph school section of the Magic chapter.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
Beast shape 3 or an 8th level wild shape allows you to take the form of a medium or small magical beast. I was thinking of a darkmantle in particular. They can use darkness 1/day as a SLA.There was a page on paizo that talked about everything that dies and does nit change when you wild shape, polymorph, etc. I'm agonized by the fact that I can't re-find it. Anyways...
Do you gain the use of spell like abilities that your animal has?
If you animal has a natural armor bonus, do you gain its natural ormor bonus, the one that beast shape gives, the combination, or neither?
Thanks.
Do you mean this?
You get the natural armor bonus specified by the spell, ignoring the actual animal's value.
You won't get any SLAs unless the spell you're using says so, and I don't think any of them do. What is there that wild shape can turn into that has an SLA? You can't turn into magical beasts, they're not of type animal.
With Beast Shape 3 you don't actually become a darkmantle. You just look like one and get the following specific abilities: fly 30' (poor), darkvision 60', low-light vision, constrict, grab, a +4 size bonus to Dexterity, and a +2 natural armor bonus (based on cross-referencing the spell description with the monster's entry).
Actually the polymorph rules from earlier in this thread don't state you lose anything.So that leads to weird things like the Dragon polymorphed into a human that still has a bite attack and is even stronger while doing so while still having his tough skin. IS that what's intended or am I seriously misreading the rules?The rules get wonky the further you move away from the basic assumptions that the spellcaster is a medium humanoid.
My reading of the text says you don't get that bite or Natural Armor.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
Beast shape 3 or an 8th level wild shape allows you to take the form of a medium or small magical beast. I was thinking of a darkmantle in particular. They can use darkness 1/day as a SLA.There was a page on paizo that talked about everything that dies and does nit change when you wild shape, polymorph, etc. I'm agonized by the fact that I can't re-find it. Anyways...
Do you gain the use of spell like abilities that your animal has?
If you animal has a natural armor bonus, do you gain its natural ormor bonus, the one that beast shape gives, the combination, or neither?
Thanks.
Do you mean this?
You get the natural armor bonus specified by the spell, ignoring the actual animal's value.
You won't get any SLAs unless the spell you're using says so, and I don't think any of them do. What is there that wild shape can turn into that has an SLA? You can't turn into magical beasts, they're not of type animal.
Nope.
The druid's Wild Shape explicitly lists what forms you can take using that ability, and magical beast isn't on any of them.
To become a magical beast requires Beast Shape IV, and Wild shape only goes to III.
Yeah, the ability specifies that it functions as Beast shape 3 "when taking the form of an animal"
Animal has a specific rules meaning, and doesn't include magical beasts (such as a darkmantle)
Good point! Missed that part of it. That said, even casting the spell wouldn't allow one to use the SLA.
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To become a magical beast requires Beast Shape IV, and Wild shape only goes to III.
Not true, beast shape 3 does allow for magical beasts, it's the specific limitation in wild shape that only allows for animal shapes. A druid can turn into a darkmantle form, but it usually requires casting shapechange at level 17, which works as beast shape 3.